When Your Child Faces Medical Challenges: Finding the Right Words with Katie Taylor

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Katie Taylor, Certified Child Life Specialist, shares strategies for talking to children about medical procedures in ways that reduce anxiety and build trust.

• Children pick up on our non-verbal cues during difficult times and may imagine scenarios worse than reality
• Research shows children who receive preparation before medical procedures exhibit less anxiety and recover faster
• Using concrete, age-appropriate language helps children understand medical situations (like "sleepy medicine" for anesthesia)
• Different approaches work for different ages - 4-year-olds need sequence-based explanations while 10-year-olds benefit from more involvement
• Children process difficult news in their own ways and on their own timeline
• Parents don't need perfect words - the message of love and togetherness matters most
• Multiple small conversations often work better than one overwhelming discussion
• Start by asking about previous medical experiences to gauge understanding and misconceptions

Show Guest

Katie Taylor, CCLS, CEO & Founder, Child Life On Call

Katie Taylor is the co-founder and CEO of Child Life On Call, a digital platform revolutionizing pediatric healthcare by putting parents at the center of the medical journey. With over 15 years of experience as a certified child life specialist, Katie has made significant contributions to the field of child life and the families she’s served with over a decade of working at the bedside. She is an accomplished author, engaging child life and entrepreneurship speaker, and the Child Life On Call Podcast host. Katie's work emphasizes the vital role of child life services in supporting caregivers and enhancing children's medical journeys through empowering parents.

Transcript

Introduction to Couch Time with Kat

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to.

Speaker 2 0:01

Couch Time with Kat, your safe place for real conversation and a gentle check-in. Kwvh presents Couch Time with Kat. Hi, I'm Kat, trauma therapist, coach, tedx speaker, best-selling author and your host here on Couch Time with Kat. I've spent over a decade walking alongside people through the real, raw and sacred work of becoming whole again through the real, raw and sacred work of becoming whole again. Catch Time with Kat.

Speaker 2 0:24

Mental Wellness with a Friendly Voice is where we have conversations that are equal parts science and soul. This is where we get honest about anxiety, grief, burnout, relationships and the brave everyday work of healing. You don't have to have it all figured out to belong here. Whether you're tuning in right from here in the hill country or listening across the world, I want you to feel seen, supported and reminded that you're not alone. So find your cozy spot, take a deep breath and let's talk about what it means to be human together. Today's conversation is about one of the hardest parts of parenting finding the right words when your child is facing a medical challenge.

Speaker 2 1:07

Katie Taylor, ccls, is the co-founder and CEO of Child Life on Call, a digital platform revolutionizing pediatric health care by putting parents at the center of their medical journey. With over 15 years' experience as a certified child life specialist. Katie has spent more than a decade at the bedside, supporting children and their families through illness, injury and hospitalization. She's also an accomplished author, podcast host, keynote speaker and a passionate advocate for ensuring every family has access to the emotional and practical tools they need during medical care to the emotional and practical tools they need during medical care.

Speaker 2 1:50

Katie's career began in child safety outreach with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, before she trained at Children's National Medical Center and Inova Children's Hospital. She's worked in pediatric ICUs, emergency rooms, oncology wards and even launched child life services in an 80-bed NICU. In each setting, she's seen how honest, age-appropriate conversations can calm fear, build trust and help children feel more in control during the most uncertain moments of their lives. If you've ever wondered how to talk to a child about a diagnosis, a surgery or a scary procedure without overwhelming them, this conversation is for you. Katie's here to share strategies, language and heart-centered guidance that can make all the difference. Hi, katie.

Speaker 1 2:39

Hi friend, welcome. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to have you here, so happy to be here.

Speaker 2 2:44

Why are you such a powerhouse of a woman? Oh gosh.

Speaker 1 2:47

Back at you, sister.

Speaker 2 2:48

Plus she's a dancer.

Speaker 1 2:50

Oh, absolutely A good one.

Speaker 2 2:51

The best one.

Speaker 1 2:53

And back in my day poof, what a fan kick. I'll tell you that you just snorted. I think that was my first snort.

Speaker 2 3:05

Welcome to Couch Time with Kat. She snorts, so we're diving into a difficult topic and we're laughing, I know.

Speaker 1 3:09

But I kind of think that's okay. Yeah Right, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 3:13

Including the levity that's part of the play.

Speaker 1 3:16

Yeah, and being willing to accept what shows up when it shows up up man.

Speaker 2 3:30

In my work, in my private practice, a lot of the work we do is accepting two emotions at the same time, two truths at the same time, be it grief and love, or sadness and joy, or anxiety and excitement. You know, whatever it, is. It's like just kind of accepting the wholeness of it all really turns the temperature down. Is that your experience?

Speaker 1 3:50

Absolutely. Kids are so honest in their responses and I think we can learn a lot from that. And yeah, even thinking of my own kids, I'm a parent, I have a seven and a 10 year old and they're giving me their exact responses to how they feel and I could learn a lot from that.

Speaker 2 4:10

Research from the Association of Child Life Professionals shows that children who receive prep before medical procedures exhibit less anxiety, recover faster and are more cooperative during care. Children deserve the truth, delivered in a way that they can understand. When we don't prepare them, we unintentionally add fear to an already stressful experience. Yeah, that sounds like something that your work is centered around.

Speaker 1 4:39

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 4:40

Why is it so important to have these conversations with children, instead of just trying to protect them by saying nothing?

Speaker 1 4:47

oh, I, you know. I think I'm so glad you said that, because it's good to acknowledge that it can be almost instinctual for us to want to close the door on hard conversations when we're having them, because we don't want kids to hear, but they are picking up on all of our non-ver cues. So I mean, I just see this time and time again, not only in medical experiences but also just out in the world, and the most recent being the Hill Country floods, and that my kids knew something was happening and at some point I was going to have to have a conversation with them and it was going to be hard and I was going to be sad and they could get sad and scared, and so I almost wanted to say no, I want to protect their little hearts. But what they could be making up in their mind could be way worse than what was actually happening. So it was really important for me to sit down, understand what was their understanding of the Hill Country floods and talk to them in a way they could understand it.

Speaker 2 5:41

Sometimes we think that protecting them means shielding them, but sometimes protecting them is sharing with them.

Speaker 1 5:51

I love that.

Speaker 2 5:53

You can take it.

Speaker 1 5:54

Okay, put it on a shirt.

Why Truth Matters in Medical Situations

Speaker 2 5:55

Okay, I think we put our own projections and our own fears and our own idea of how they're going to process the information. Yeah, and for me and my line of work, which we'll get to in a little bit, on how you all, how the child life specialists, talk through this moment, but when we, when we cloud something, when we say it in fluffy terms, when we say it in fluffy terms, when we say things in, when we say it unclearly, I know exactly what you mean.

Speaker 2 6:28

It's so confusing to them, so confusing to kiddos. They're like, wait, grandpa's in heaven. But he's here. What are you talking about? Wait, did he die or is he in heaven? But so they start to parse in wait, what's the truth and what isn't? It's like they really need something more tangible. Like grandpa died. They're like, oh, that's terrible. Okay, like that's something they can wrap their head around. But when we tag on grandpa died, he's in heaven, you'll see him later.

Speaker 1 7:04

For a four or five-year-old you're like they're like what happened.

Speaker 1 7:08

Yeah, the concreteness of explaining things to kids. So an example of you brought up death. Their brain stopped telling their heart to beat, the heart stopped beating, the blood stopped running through their veins, the lungs stopped breathing, like concrete examples of why the body is no longer working and how that is death and that is dying and dead. And I think we can be really scared of those words with kids. But pass away is really confusing. What does pass away mean? So I'm so grateful you brought up death and dying, because sometimes those bigger words and it's okay to infuse spirituality in your belief system alongside of it but that concrete conversation of the body is no longer working is an important part of explaining death.

Speaker 2 8:03

I also can see and hear myself fumbling through that example. Yeah, yeah, I am fumbling, saying this is how we fumble, and just hearing you say the lungs stop working, I feel more calm. Just, yeah, just. And we're not even talking about somebody who actually died, I know, and I'm an adult, yeah, so I can see how, even for a child, those two things would be intensified, like if a parent is fumbling, then the kid's going to pick up on that, and if the parent is clear and concrete, then the child will pick up on that also you know we can go deep into this topic.

Speaker 1 8:44

um, my cousin died two weeks ago and I found myself saying you know, we lost andy, and that's something that you would understand, but it's not something that my seven-year-old understands, and so she's ready to go for a search party. Right, well, where can we find him? Right? And so understanding that those words will come out, but that I can also explain that he died and what that means.

Speaker 2 9:12

From your experience, what happens when kids aren't told what's going to happen?

Speaker 1 9:39

the child's experience, and so an example of this is there was a family and the child knew that their mom was really, really sick and it was very hard for them to go to school because they had the classroom that was right by the street. So anytime an ambulance went by, the child believed that it was the mom going to the hospital in the ambulance, where that was not the case. But the child kept acting up at school and having a lot of behavior problems because they equated every ambulance or police car with the sign that something was happening with their parent. Now that can be completely understandable, but then there can also be a solution to that that we promise if mom needs to go to the hospital, we're going to notify your teacher right away and your teacher will tell you. So it kind of takes the pressure off the child believing that every single thing that happened or went by was their mom getting sick again.

Speaker 2 10:29

Wow. So just the awareness and just the child being able to trust the adults and say, okay, kind of melt into that trust. They are going to tell me what I need to know when I need to know it.

Speaker 1 10:41

Right.

Speaker 2 10:41

Sounds like it gives the kid an ability to put that anxiety down.

Speaker 1 10:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:47

And to not be on red alert.

Speaker 1 10:49

All the time.

Speaker 2 10:50

All the time. Let's talk language. How do you explain something complex? Let's take adenoids and tonsils being taken out. That's something that happened in my home. I had no idea what to say. That was, this was a few years ago. Like how would you explain that to a four-year-old versus a 10-year-old?

Speaker 1 11:12

Great question. Four-year-olds without sounding this isn't meant to sound mean they're really egotistical.

Speaker 2 11:20

They want to know they're supposed to be. That's developmentally appropriate. That's developmentally appropriate?

Age-Appropriate Language for Medical Procedures

Speaker 1 11:24

How is the world going to affect them? So let's take it from that perspective. How does the parent want to approach the situation? They want to approach it with thinking what is going to change for this four-year-old on the day that they have surgery? Prepare them for the sequence of events that are going to happen? We're going to go see Dr So-and-so Dr Angela. You've seen Dr Angela before. We're going to go see Dr Angela at a new place it's called the hospital. Mom and dad are going to be with you as soon as we walk into the hospital. Together, we're going to walk in. We are going to be with you as soon as we walk into the hospital. Together, we're going to walk in. We're going to bring your bag.

Speaker 1 11:58

I love having kids prepared before they walk in, so whenever possible, I think it's important to have the child pack a bag of something that they like and know and love and can bring with them that is concerning to them. What are they going to have with them? You want to prepare them for the sequence of events. We're not going to have breakfast like normal. Okay, we're not going to be able to eat and drink like we can, but it's okay because we're going to go on a special trip. We're going to bring your bag and we're going to go to the hospital. So what I'm doing with this four-year-old is preparing them for what steps one, two, three and four are going to be.

Speaker 1 12:30

The next thing they're going to have to do is they're going to get some medicine that's called anesthesia and you can say that word to the child. It's not a bad word. They're going to hear the doctor say that word. So it's okay to say. But break it down to say it's actually a special word for sleepy medicine. And when you get your sleepy medicine, you're going to breathe it through a mask and Dr Angela is going to take some tonsils and adenoids out of your throat and your nose. You're not going to be able to feel it because you're asleep with medicine.

Speaker 1 12:59

Now, sleep with medicine is different than sleep at home, because sleep at home is because we're tired, right? So if mom or dad were to come in and have a dance party, we'd wake up because they're having a dance party in our room. But when we have sleep with medicine called anesthesia, we can't feel anything. When the tonsils and adenoids are all gone, you're going to wake up and mom and dad will be with you. Your throat may feel a little bit sore and scratchy, but it is our job to make sure you have medicine so that if your throat is feeling scratchy and it hurts and you don't feel good, you tell us and we give you that medicine. We also have lots of popsicles when you wake up which will help your throat feel better, and your job is going to be to eat those popsicles.

Speaker 2 13:46

Sounds amazing. Sounds like a sandals resort.

Speaker 1 13:50

Right, and I'm not painting that it's all going to be rainbows and it's not going to hurt and we're not going to have to do hard things. But I'm saying in a way a four-year-old can understand the language clear. Okay, and let's go to the grocery store and pick out the popsicles we're going to have when you get home.

Speaker 2 14:04

Great, let's do it. What does a 10-year-old want to know? How should we speak to a 10-year-old?

Speaker 1 14:11

um, I think it's important to get that conversation ahead of time of what does the 10-year-old know already? What have they heard? Right? So you have heard that you've been having throat infections or strep or whatever the reason is for having the surgery out. And then I would open it up to the 10-year-old and say what do you want to know so far about what's going to happen with the surgery? I would use the word surgery and allow them to lead the conversation. I often say there's a few non-negotiables that I want to make sure you know ahead of time so that you're prepared for what to expect. But you tell me when it's too much. Or you tell me when you want to be done talking about it, and we'll be done talking about it, but I'll make sure you know what's going to happen to you and I'm going to be there with you the whole time.

Speaker 2 14:58

So for the 10 year old, you're assuming they've already. There's words on the street of what happens, so you want to get their perspective. You want to see where they're at what kind of knowledge. Maybe they have some knowledge. That's completely bogus and you need to dispel those myths or you need to calm their anxiety just because they heard something that's untrue.

Speaker 1 15:20

Absolutely, and an okay answer for the parent is I don't know, but we can find out together. So let's write the question down and I can either call the pre-op line today and ask the question we can find out or we can ask together at the doctor, and I think that kind of takes a little bit of pressure off parents to have to. You're not supposed to know every single step of what happens during the surgery, but if you and your child want to know, you can find out together.

Speaker 2 15:47

Many parents worry that telling their child the truth will make them more scared. Yeah, how do you address that?

Speaker 1 15:57

Oh, I have a. Really I have an example for that. Okay, so I was working with an 11 year old boy who was coming into the hospital for a circumcision and he was under the impression that he was there to have his knee fixed. And he kept on saying, like what's wrong with my knee? I don't need the surgery.

Speaker 2 16:17

My knee is fine. You better stop.

Speaker 1 16:19

And I know it's so easy for us to judge this parent and say how could they do that? But he was a single dad who didn't know how to explain the circumcision to his child.

Speaker 1 16:30

I'm not judging, I'm not judging, I know, I know, I know, I know you're not, but it's easy for us, right? It's easy for us to say he was scared, he didn't want to say the wrong words, and so he pulled us aside, closed the curtain and said he thinks he's getting his knee fixed. And I said, okay, what happened to his knee, you know? Like, let's break this down, um, and so what ended up happening is, you know, the surgeon came in and said you know, we're not going to do the surgery unless the child is compliant and understands and gives consent for what's about to happen. We want the consent of the parent and the assent of the child in medical situations. And so we just talked to the dad and said, hey, here are the three things we need him to know about this surgery, and we're going to tell them together. And so that's what ended up happening.

Speaker 2 17:19

We're going to go back to that you would be so surprised.

Speaker 1 17:21

I have kids coming into the hospital because they think they're on the way to the vacation for the beach vacation, because that's how the parents got them to get them there. But I do understand that it's like I don't want to tell them, I don't want them to be scared.

Speaker 2 17:36

I feel like that is a recipe for disaster. Yeah, so in my line of work trauma, part of trauma is being blindsided. Yeah, that is usually an ingredient in 99% of trauma cases is that something happened and we didn't expect it to happen. So, getting circumcised when you're going in for a knee a knee situation, that could be really traumatic yeah so it ends up actually being worse.

Speaker 2 18:15

You're trying to protect your child or trying to help them avoid the discomfort of momentary pain or confusion or whatever is going to happen in that situation. Yeah, but the cover up is worse than the crime, so to speak.

Speaker 1 18:33

So true, so you end up really paying the price later for not paying the price up front yeah, and not to bring it back to the hill, country floods again, but this is just on my mind. My kids were seeing the news and seeing floods everywhere, so they're very scared and on high alert and so it was really important for us to talk about, like geographically, where the floods were, because in their mind they were making it much worse. Right, and so that's.

Building Trust Through Honest Communication

Speaker 1 18:58

Another reason is that he's going to be picking up that something's not right, that something's not wrong. They're not even looking at his knee. He's going to be picking up on these cues and we want them to trust the adults in the room.

Speaker 2 19:11

Right Then, that the domino effects of the trust problem breaking are big, unbelievable. Yeah, I don't know where those dominoes would stop falling. Yeah, you know. Earlier you said two words and I want to really clarify them for the listener consent and assent. Can you clarify what those mean in a medical situation?

Speaker 1 19:33

yeah, so parents sign the paperwork and that's the consent form that they give for the medical procedure to be done. But whenever possible and the child is age or developmentally appropriate, we want the child to give their assent and consent for what's about to happen. Of course they're not going to be fully on board to walk right into surgery, but we need their approval and acknowledgement of what's happening.

Speaker 2 20:03

A study in pediatrics to back up your statement found that children who receive honest, age-appropriate medical explanations have better emotional outcomes than those given vague or misleading information. So, as parents, it may be uncomfortable for us up front to have these conversations, but it is. Our children are going to be far better off if we bite the bullet as parents at the beginning.

Speaker 1 20:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:31

If we like, front load the discomfort on our end.

Speaker 1 20:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:35

Rather than what you're. What we're really doing as parents when we're not informing the kiddos, is that we're saying it's too uncomfortable for me to deal with, but I'm going to let you deal with that later. Yeah, oh, I know.

Speaker 1 20:49

Oh, that feels weird to say I know and we can set it up in a way that is really child-friendly or whoever you're talking to, the setting can be really comfortable. They can have people around that they trust during the conversation. You can look for cues when your child is done talking about the conversation. You can see it in their body language.

Speaker 2 21:13

Glazed eyes.

Speaker 1 21:14

Glazed eyes. I've worked with a family before and in the waiting room we had to give some really hard news that their sister had died. And they said okay and went over and just started playing video games. And that wasn't a time for me to make sure she knew that the lungs stopped breathing, right. That was the time for me to acknowledge she needs to play and process this at a different time, and let me give the family some words to use and how to follow up. And so what I would, what I did in that instance was like hey, I can tell you're done talking about this. I just want to let you know whenever you're ready we're still here, we can still talk about this when you're ready. So it's an acknowledgement that their choice was to go play video games, which is fine and completely normal response to hearing something that's difficult, and an acknowledgment that there are still safe people around to talk about it when you're ready.

Speaker 2 22:10

And as adults we have preconceived notions of what the reaction should be, yeah. And if we can remove those preconceived notions and give the child more autonomy in how they grieve or react or just process, yeah. That child in that moment, my guess, is not grieving. She's in shock and she's got to work through that and the grieving will come later.

Speaker 1 22:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:36

But I can see in that instance where somebody would deliver the information, see a child go play video games and think, oh, they didn't love their sibling.

Speaker 1 22:44

They don't care.

Speaker 2 22:45

Which is completely wrong and breaks my heart, that that idea would be imposed on that child, that child, and I think it's just a good reminder for us not to. We cannot prescribe how our children or how adults are going to react to difficult conversations or difficult information. We're all going to receive it differently, process differently and eventually grieve differently. Yeah, there's got to be some acceptance around that.

Speaker 1 23:21

There does, and you know. I think the best thing you can do in that case is go play video games with them. Let them know they're not alone in the news you just delivered. Oh wow. I always like, at the end of a hard conversation, something that reminds you that you're still a family and you're still together, whether that's like for us it would be going to play pickleball, or like playing Mancala, or drawing a picture, or just some sort of bonding that signals you're safe here, even though what we talked about was really hard.

Speaker 2 23:54

How do you support parents so that they're delivering messages with confidence?

Speaker 1 24:01

I let them know that the words that they use are not as important as the feelings they're giving their child, and that they can fumble and say the wrong thing and they're not going to screw their kid up. But if the message is love and togetherness during a hard thing, that is what is going to be most impactful for the child at that moment, because I think we can get really caught up in that. The words need to be perfect and I have to deliver them at this time in this way, and that's not what it is. It's the message that comes through of love and support during this hard time.

Supporting Children Through Difficult News

Speaker 2 24:36

So we don't have to get the language exactly right. We just have to stay steadfast to the intention of love and togetherness and support, and we're going to get through this together.

Speaker 1 24:48

What do you think? Yeah, I would love your your opinion on that.

Speaker 2 24:52

What's the question?

Speaker 1 24:54

You said how do you make sure that parents feel supported in these hard conversations?

Speaker 2 25:03

I don't know. I mean, I would definitely agree with what you're saying, but from my seat, when I'm talking to parents that are going through a difficult time, the best thing I can do as a therapist is offer them my love and support and togetherness. So I think it's just a long chain of love and support and togetherness and the more pieces that we can attach to each other. So if the parents have support, then the parents can give support, yeah, and then the kids can support each other. And if we're seeing it modeled, it's just kind of a game of telephone of love and support, yeah.

Speaker 1 25:45

Oh, I see that I equated a lot like when kids have to get hard information to make sure that the school principal knows the school nurse the teacher, the school counselor, like whoever is an adult in that child's life, is informed about the hard thing that's happening. We'll see that a lot with like long hospitalizations If a sibling is gone. We need the whole support system of the child to know to take extra special care with the sibling.

Speaker 2 26:18

And not ignoring what the sibling is going through yeah like sometimes I think older versions of thoughts about this are let's not bring it up because we don't want to remind them. Oh yeah, and now we know it's really opposite. It's let's bring it up so that they know they're not alone, so they don't feel like they have to navigate this alone or that they're inconveniencing other people. And we want to bring it up in a way, of course, that's loving and supportive. You're not prying, you're not looking for information. That's not it. It's just saying hey, I know you're going through this really hard time and I'm here, or let's go for a walk or let's go get ice cream, or just presence makes such a huge difference.

Speaker 1 27:04

Yeah, and kids will tell you what they need. You know, I often say kids ask the questions they want to know the answers to, and I have this a lot in like my personal life with my son, and when's the right time to talk about sex and when's the right time to about sex and when's the right time to, you know, really get into the nitty-gritty of it. And if he brings it up, I know he's ready. And then I'll say you know, I'm happy to tell you I'm ready and willing. Are you sure you want to know? And he'll go no, never mind, I'm not ready, you know. And then there was the time where he said please just tell me, mom, I just want to know what's happening.

Speaker 2 27:41

Please, my kids are still asking me what the F word is.

Speaker 1 27:44

Yeah, you know, and it's your comfort level too, no matter what the hard conversation is. But I do abide by. Kids are ready, when they're ready and they'll let you know.

Speaker 2 27:56

If a parent is listening right now and their child has a medical procedure coming up, what's one thing they can do tonight to start that conversation?

Speaker 1 28:05

I would ask what the child knows or has thought about a previous medical experience. So remember the last time we had to go get the flu shot? You know what was that like for you, what worked really well, what didn't go well. That'll give you like a little bit of insight into what they remember and whether or not that's accurate actually what they remember, or is there any misconception that you can clear up. You can find out what went well, what worked again and could we try again for the next time. So I would say, just do a little due diligence or open conversation about something previous that's happened.

Speaker 2 28:44

Open conversation, understanding their perspective and active listening. Yeah, really listening to hear their answers and ask a follow-up question, not just listening and moving on.

Speaker 1 28:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:58

Or not just hearing and moving on? Yeah, but really taking into account what the kiddo is saying.

Speaker 1 29:04

You know, I love what you said, because what can we do tonight? And I hope you heard that my answer was not tell them everything that's going to happen tonight. It's not one conversation, it's a bunch of little conversations and I think you'll you'll see that too, and we're talking about hard conversations with kids. It's not just one time that you'll have it and then you're like okay, we did it, it's over. It's a bunch of little ones and they could build, so take your time with them. Don't feel like you have to blurt out everything all at once.

Speaker 2 29:30

And that gives you as parents or gives us as parents many opportunities to not necessarily get it right but to build a really good, solid foundation where we're building trust with our kids and we're increasing the connection and, even though we're talking about difficult things, we're doing it with love and intention, and that repeatedly makes a huge difference.

Speaker 1 29:54

Yeah, it feels so good when you say it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:59

Katie for people who want to connect with you, learn more or get these tools. Where can they find you?

Speaker 1 30:04

I am most active on Instagram, so come hang out with me there. It's Child Life On Call. You can also go to my website, which is childlifeoncallcom, and listen to my podcast at backslash podcast or anywhere you find your podcast.

Speaker 2 30:17

Friend, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 30:19

I love you so much, love you too.

Closing Thoughts and Resources

Speaker 2 30:21

These conversations aren't easy, but they're worth having and, friends, thank you for being here. Until next time, take good care of yourselves. And that's a wrap on today's episode of Couch Time with Kat. I'm so grateful you joined me here, whether you were walking, driving or curled up with a cup of something warm. I hope today's conversation left you feeling just a little more connected to yourself and a little less alone in whatever you're walking through. If you'd like to connect with me, you can find me at katiahollamcom that's C-A-T-I-A-H-O-L-Mcom, or over on Instagram at katianandashollam. I'd love to hear your thoughts, your questions or what this episode stirred in you. If we had a guest on today's episode, you can find all their links and info in the show notes. Please support their work and follow along. If they resonated with you and if this episode meant something to you, would you please take a moment to rate, review and share it with a friend. These stories matter. Your voice matters. Until next time, be kind to yourself.