Love In Translation, Neurodivergent Relationships with Emily Pearce

Welcome!! To connect or become a client, visit catiaholm.com or call/text 956-249-7930. 

In today's episode, we sit with the question of whether relationship conflict is really about love or about emotional language that never got translated. With therapist Emily Pierce, we name how neurodivergence shapes communication and we share tools for building compassion, safety, and clarity in neurodiverse couples. 
• neurodivergence as a broad umbrella including ADHD, autism, OCD, PTSD, learning differences, and acquired differences 
• executive functioning, sensory processing, and emotion regulation differences that change how partners respond 
• why “everyone is a little ADHD” language feels invalidating 
• late diagnosis in adults, masking, and why tools can stop working during life transitions like perimenopause or parenting 
• stigma, fear, and shame that can block support and assessment 
• how to find more reliable education, including Neurodivergent Insights by Dr Anna Neff 
• what makes a couple “neurodiverse” and why every pairing needs a custom approach 
• common miscommunication loops like forgotten tasks, rejection sensitivity, and tone differences 
• masking versus adapting, and how to build safety for both partners 
• “support swapping” so both partners do meaningful work 
• acceptance and grief after a late diagnosis, plus over-communication as a path to repair 
• hope for stronger foundations once couples learn a shared language 

Show Guest: 

Emily Pearce is a passionate LMFT-A specializing in neurodivergent couples, with a deep commitment to understanding and addressing the unique challenges faced by these relationships. Over the past three years, Emily has achieved remarkable success in helping neurodivergent couples and individuals navigate common relationship issues through the unique lens of neurodiversity. Drawing from a lifetime of being surrounded by a neurodiverse circle and understanding her own neurodivergent brain, Emily integrates personal experiences with professional expertise to offer empathetic and effective counseling. Emily is dedicated to filling the growing need for specialized training, advocacy, and education in neurodiverse counseling.

You can connect with her at her website and on Instagram. 

Transcript

Welcome To Couch Time

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for real conversation and a gentle check-in. KWVH presents Couch Time with Cat. Hi friends, and welcome to Couch Time with Cat, Mental Wellness with a Friendly Voice. I'm Cat, their best bestselling author, TEDx speaker, and endurance athlete. But most of all, I'm a wife, mama, and someone who deeply believes that people are good and healing is possible. Here in the Hill Country of Wimberley, Texas, I've built my life and practice around one purpose to make mental wellness feel accessible, compassionate, and real. This show is for those moments when life feels heavy, when you're craving clarity, or when you just need to hear, you're not alone. Each week we'll explore the terrain of mental wellness through stories, reflections, research, and tools you can bring into everyday life. Think of it as a conversation between friends, rooted in science, guided by heart, and grounded in the belief that healing does not have to feel clinical. It can feel like sitting on a couch with someone who gets it. So whether you're driving, walking, cooking, or simply catching your breath, you're welcome here. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and reminded of your own strength. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive in. What if the emotional conflict in your relationship isn't about love at all? What if it's about language, emotional language that you were never taught to translate? Today we're stepping into the tender, often misunderstood world of neurodivergent relationships where connection isn't broken, but it just speaks a different dialect. There's a moment that happens in so many relationships. It's quiet and almost invisible. One person says, Why don't you ever listen to me? And the other, genuinely confused, responds, I am listening. And somehow both are telling the truth. But they leave that moment feeling unseen, disconnected, and maybe even a little broken. I've sat with couples, good people, loving people who aren't lacking effort or care. What they're lacking is a shared communication system. And when neurodivergence is part of the relationship, whether that's ADD, autism, executive functioning differences, or sensory processing, the gap between intention and impact can feel even wider. Not because anyone is doing something wrong, but because they're speaking different emotional languages. And here's the truth I want us to anchor in today that difference is not dysfunction, but without understanding, a difference can feel like a distance. Today's conversation is about closing that distance with compassion, curiosity, and tools that work in real life. You're listening to Couch Time with Cat. I'm Cat, and today we're talking about navigating love and communication in neurodivergent relationships. Let's ground this in science and soul for a moment. Neurodivergence simply means that a brain processes information differently than what we consider neurotypical. So let's say common. This can show up in how someone communicates, it regulates emotion, it processes sensory input, or organizes thoughts. Research in neuroscience tells us that differences in executive functioning, things like planning, emotional regulation, and attention can impact how someone responds in relational moments. So for example, one partner may need time to process before responding, and another may need immediate verbal reassurance to feel safe. Neither is wrong, but without awareness, these needs can collide or sometimes miss each other. And here's the soulful layer. Most relationship pain isn't about what's happening, it's about the meaning we're attaching to what is happening. So sometimes, let's say we reach out to our partner and they don't reach back for connection immediately. We may think, are you ignoring me? Do I matter? Why can't we connect? And then maybe even we spiral. When we understand the why behind behavior, we create space for compassion instead of blame. And that's where healing begins. Today I'm joined by someone who brings both professional expertise and lived experience into this space in a powerful way. Emily Pierce is a licensed marriage and family therapist associate who specializes in working with neurodivergent individuals and couples. Over the past few years, she's helped so many people navigate the unique challenges and strengths that come with neurodiverse relationships. What I love about Emily is that she doesn't just study this work, she lives it, she advocates for it. She understands firsthand the frustration, the isolation, and also the beauty that can exist in these dynamics. Her approach is collaborative, deeply compassionate, and rooted in the belief that you are the leader of your own healing, which I know resonates so deeply with the listeners of this show. Emily is also doing important work in advocacy and education, helping fill a growing need for more awareness and support in neurodiverse therapy. Emily, hi. I'm so glad you're here.

Speaker 5:44

I'm so glad I'm here. This is wonderful. That was a beautiful intro. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 5:48

Oh my God. Yeah. I I really am just so grateful that you're here to teach us because neurodivergence is a big word. And I shared my understanding of it. But since you're the expert, I'd love for you to share what with the listeners, what is neurodivergence?

Speaker 6:11

I mean, you said it pretty well in the intro, but neurodivergence is really just a divergence from what is considered normal, right? So um we have the normal type of brain, right? And and what happens, I think, is is the words neurotypical and neurodivergent sometimes get negative or positive connotations with them, but they're all neutral words, right? Neurodivergent brains are one way and neurotypical brains are another way. And they're all part of a neurodiverse set of people, right? We're all different. It's the same as like culture or um ethnicity, all these things. They're all differences that we all share as the human race.

Speaker 1 6:49

What are some common types of neurodivergence?

Speaker 6:53

So neurodivergence is actually like a term that was created under law. So there's a neurodivergent umbrella that falls under like the ADA um idea 504 plans for for kids in school. Uh so it's a very vast um umbrella. So it can be things like autism, PhD, OCD, but it also includes things that are acquired, so to speak, um like PTSD, um, or things, any any type of thing where your brain works differently, it's kind of falls under that umbrella. So it's a very extensive list, but the reasoning for it was to make it so that they are protected under law.

Speaker 1 7:40

Wow, I had no idea. So neurodivergence can be something you're born with or something you acquire.

Speaker 7:48

That's why it's such a huge, and it can be like even disabilities, like in the way of um learning disabilities, right? So dyspraxia, um, all those things, those are all under that same umbrella.

Speaker 1 8:02

Good Lord. I've had I've been diagnosed with PTSD before, so for sure that's neurodivergence.

Speaker 8:07

For sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 8:09

I get a flag.

Speaker 8:10

Yay. My hesitant says you're part of the club.

Speaker 1 8:15

Thank you so much. Thank you. I love being part of the club. How can someone so have you heard this lately where people say, oh, now everybody has it? And it's kind of this attitude like, come on.

Speaker 8:32

Yeah, I think I've heard before, like, well, everyone's a little ADD, or everyone has a little bit of autism, right? And that's just so invalidating for people that actually struggle with those like daily tasks that are like kind of like pulling teeth, right? Um, so I I understand that there's there's focus issues for everyone, right? Like everybody struggles with focus. Everyone at some point probably struggles with some executive functioning. Um, but it is just so invalidating for those people that really do struggle to you. Remember to brush their teeth every day, right? Like it's things like that, that you take away that difficulty from that person. And it's just very invalidating when when that language is being used.

Speaker 1 9:14

What would be a few questions or things that somebody could look at to ask themselves, am I like, is that what is that what this is? I just thought I was quirky.

Speaker 9:25

And I I think, you know, I think that comes with the territory with being neurodivergent too, is is you are kind of a weirdo, right? And that's kind of what I thought for the longest time, because I didn't get diagnosed with ADHD until I was 28. Um, so because I did well in school. I had a 4.0. Like I was not struggling in the way that traditionally you see, right? And a lot of women also pass by and you know, aren't detected uh because they aren't showing the normal like male symptoms of like hyperactivity or bad behavior or those kinds of things. Um I'm so sorry, I forgot your original question.

Speaker 1 10:01

Oh no, I think it's great. I asked, what would be some clues that somebody could look into or areas of their life to start to think, am I neurodivergent? Am I just quirky? Am I both?

Speaker 10:17

I think for a lot of people, there's a moment, especially with later diagnosed folks, there's a moment when suddenly your tools stop working. So in a way, the glass breaks, right? Suddenly you're like, oh, I can't mask anymore. And for those who don't know, masking is basically the social mask that you have to put on that you get taught of like you can't see these, say these things because I had a bad response because I said those things or did this thing, or make sure you smile here, even if I don't want to, right? Masking means that. So there becomes a point, I think, with a lot of change. A lot of for a lot of women, it's when you have kids or when you're going through perimenopause. Like those are the a lot of times for the women that come see me, that's the point when it all kind of starts crumbling. Um, so it's it's moments like you suddenly can't focus. You suddenly are wanting to do things you love, but you just can't get yourself to do it. Like there's a wall almost. Um, and there's a lot of shame that comes in, right? There's a lot of shame around, hey, I was taught to do all these things, but now it's not working. And, you know, just kind of those feelings. There's no like one right answer, right? Because once again, that umbrella is so huge. But I think the the general consensus of most of my clients that are adults is that they've always felt that something was a little off or they felt like they didn't fit in. Um, the analogy that I like to use with my clients is the world is kind of a round hole, and neurodivergents are square pegs and we're trying to fit in and it just doesn't work. So um I think that is the general feeling I think you get. And, you know, once again, it could just be that you're a little different, a little weird, you know. But I think the one thing I love about the neurodivergent community is that there's a lot of acceptance around self-diagnosis. Because one, it's very hard right now to get diagnosed, right? It's a lot of money. Um, if you don't have insurance, it's almost impossible to afford that kind of um assessments. Um, so there's a lot of, and obviously take that with a grain of salt because there are people out there that are like, well, I'm autistic, and they're not actually, right? Um, but I think it's very uh it the community in general is very accepting of that, of like, yeah, we understand you can't get a real diagnosis, so come come join us. We're all just a weird wolf pack that have found each other.

Speaker 1 12:44

I I love that. I will share a personal anecdote. I'm 42, I'm in perimenopause. And uh Grace, our our mutual friend and friend of the show, she has been on several times. She was like, girl, U A D D. And I was like, really? She was like, uh, yeah, you sure are. And she just listed this scroll of things that I had just never even thought about because I have been a high achiever like you, Emily, and so nobody thought anything because I figured out systems, you know, I figured out how to cope. She she said, Why do you think you've been working out at night since you were 10 years old?

Speaker 13:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:47

She's like because sleep is boring to you and you need stimulation. She's like, 10-year-olds don't do buns of steel in their living room by choice. Like, it's not a normal. I was telling her, you know, I've been working out at night since I was 10, and she was like, There's something there. So I'm finally in the process of and I'm a mental health professional like you, and I'm in the process of trying to get signed up with a psychiatrist to get assessed, and it's hard. Nobody will call me back.

Speaker 14:22

It's really hard. I have some names.

Speaker 1 14:24

So yeah, okay, great. Yeah. After the show, thank you. So I definitely resonated when you said, you know, women in perimenopause, they've had these systems that have that work for so long, and all of a sudden things are I wouldn't say I can't do the things that I used to do, but I would say I feel the wheels kind of shaky a little bit, like when you put a donut tire on a on a car, you know, and it's like it's like working, but not super great.

Stigma And The Diagnosis Fear

Speaker 14:52

I had one one person tell me that it was like trudging through molasses. Like clear, but like it's taking way longer and it's a lot more, I guess, painful because yeah, that's us on a lot of effort.

unknown 15:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1 15:08

You mentioned that the neurodivergent community is loving and welcoming. So thank you all so much for that. But on the outside, I want to ask, do you think that there's a stigma with neurodivergence?

Speaker 15:21

Absolutely. Um, that's a no-brainer because I think even politically, right? There's there's a lot of political stuff going on with autism and how it's an epidemic and all these things. And so there's now a lot of fear too, around a lot of my clients from even wanting to get a diagnosis because they're like, oh, we're gonna be on a list, right? And it can be very scary, you know, of like, oh, I'm I'm different, and now I'm gonna be put into this um group of people. And I think there's like I said, there's shame already from just society thinking that neurodivergent people are less than, right? Even the the language of it being a disability, right? It's it's harming sometimes for people to accept it because they don't want to have a disability, right? They're like, that's not something fun that I want to have. And at the end of the day, sometimes it can be debilitating, right? Sometimes it can be for people. Like with autism, level one is manageable, but once you get to level two, it's like you need more help. There's there's a higher support that you need. And that's really difficult when there's already a stigma on it of being like you're less than.

Speaker 1 16:33

If somebody thinks that they're neurodivergent and they want to explore, maybe not necessarily get assessed, but just explore, where would you send people who are curious?

Finding Reliable Resources Online

Speaker 16:46

Um, probably like if they can't afford therapy, like first thing I would say was like try to find someone that specializes in in neurodivergence, which I will say is kind of hard, right? There's there's fewer of us um than not, but I also would look at into um there's a really good website called Neurodivergent Insights. Um Dr. Anna Neff is fantastic, and she like has a newsletter that she sends out on email with different topics and things like that. Um, and she does like trainings and things like that, and just like lots of articles about all types of neurodivergence. Um, so just like things like that, but there is a lot of misinformation out there, right? There's a lot of groups that seem like they're good, but they have a lot of misinformation. So it is kind of scary to just send somebody, be like, go look it up, because it's not always, you know, accurate. Yeah.

Speaker 1 17:42

So go do some research, but also be sure you know who is putting out that research.

Speaker 17:49

Well, especially I think in the age of TikTok, right? Like there's a lot of of people self-diagnosing from just TikToks. And it's like God. It's it's kind of crazy, but at the same time, it's helpful, right? Like it's like a lot of times they'll see a TikTok and they'll be like, wait, I thought everyone experienced that, right? So it can get the wheels turning, and I love that about about you know the content that's out there. At the same time, it is kind of dangerous, right? Because you're getting this, you know, mental health information from random people on the internet, and that can always that that doesn't always lead to good good things.

What Makes A Couple Neurodiverse

Speaker 1 18:28

You're so gracious. I was gonna say it always backfires, but Emily, Emily's a smooth talker. She said it doesn't always lead to the best outcome. Okay, can we jump? So that's a good base about neurodivergence and kind of just what it is or what it could be and how it appears. Let's jump to neurodivergence in couples. Does that sound sound good? Okay. What tell me, tell me a little bit about neurodivergence in couples. Is it does it what is it one person? Does it have to be both people? How do we is there a qualifier there?

Speaker 19:15

Um, pretty much the definition of a neurodiverse couple is just one person has to be neurodivergent, right? So um most of my couples right now that I see, one of them's ADHD and one of them has autism or Audi HD, which is both. So that's usually the combo I see. Um, but it can be a neurotypical and somebody with OCD, right? Like it can be all kinds of different, different combos. And I I always say there's like a different cocktail mix for each couple that I work with because it it really is different every time. And I think that's why I like the work so much, because it's like a puzzle, and my brain is like, ooh, this is gonna be different every time. So I get that dopamine hit from even it just being different every single time. Um, but there's also a lot of flexibility needed there because some things that worked for one couple, they are not gonna work for another one.

Speaker 1 20:10

You mentioned ADHD. Yes. What can you explain that a little bit? What is that?

Speaker 20:16

Aud is when you have the wonderful mix of autism and ADHD, which is what my husband has. Um, so which super funny story about that is we were dating for about two years, and I knew he was diagnosed as ADHD as a kid. Um, and then I'm jokingly, because I was in the middle of internship and was dealing with some autistic clients, and I was like, hey, I found this assessment just for fun, take it. Oh my gosh. I felt so stupid because I was like, this is my field. How did I miss this? Because he scored so high on it. I was like, oh, okay. So that was how he got his diagnosis for Audi HD, is because I just completely missed the signs.

Speaker 1 21:03

Sometimes it's hard when you're so close to the fire.

Speaker 21:07

It is, and it's also, once again, every it it shows up differently in every single person. So he has an extremely like high EQ. His mom is also a therapist, so that makes sense. But you know, take that apart.

Speaker 1 21:23

He married a therapist.

Speaker 21:31

But yeah. So I don't know. It's it's a fun cocktail of different disorders because it's it let me retake that. Let me No, no, no.

Speaker 1 21:43

Oh yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead.

Speaker 21:45

It's uh it's a it's a it's an it's a more complicated mix um because I think a lot of times you struggle with one thing and then you struggle with this other thing, and they're you're constantly in a battle in your brain. So It's a lot more complicated. And at the same time, I think you're a little bit more open, open-minded, because you do struggle with both of these things. Um, so yeah. And I think there's a lot more people getting diagnosed with both recently. I'm not sure why or what that's about, but um, I've been seeing a lot of people that were like, Oh, I know I'm autistic, or I know I'm ADHD. And then as we go through, I'm like, I think you got both. I think you got blessed with both of those.

Speaker 1 22:30

Yeah, that's interesting. I the more work, the more that I learn about autism, sometimes I'm like, am I autistic? I don't know. I don't know. There are um, and then sometimes I think, no, you're just you're just like thinking too much about it, you know, because when you work with it, you know, when you um you hang out with somebody with a British accent and then you start talking a little bit like, you know, Madonna in the guy Richie phase. So then I second guess myself there. It's a interest, it's interesting to work with this type of population, um, and even to learn about it because you start to second guess a little bit.

Speaker 23:13

Sure. And I think it also overlaps so much with ADHD, right? Like specifically autism and ADHD. I personally, this is not a professional, but personally, I think they should all be on the same spectrum because they are so overlapping, right? Like for a long time we thought only ADHDs dealt with executive dysfunction, but now we're like, no, autistic people do too. Like, so it's and it also here's another fun thing that gets thrown in the mix is if there's trauma, if trauma is involved, it also shows up a lot very similarly to ADHD and autism. So when I get a client that has both and trauma, it's like Christmas lights tangled up. We have to kind of figure out what is what because it's very complicated because they all show up as very similar symptoms.

Speaker 1 24:03

Oh, that breaks my heart. Yeah. It's hard because that's just like a ball of hurt, you know, all wrapped up into one or hurt or misunderstanding or um frustration.

Speaker 24:17

For sure. I think that the number number one word I hear is frustration, right? That's the number one emotion I think my clients give me, whether it's in couples or individuals. Frustration's a big one.

Miscommunication Examples That Hurt

Speaker 1 24:30

Can you give me an example of what a like a benign miscommunication experience could feel like between two partners where there is neurodivergence? Like, hey honey, please remember to get the milk. And then what happens? Scene and go.

Speaker 25:00

Um, I think one of the biggest things is that one partner doesn't have follow-through. Right. So if that that partner is asking, say, husband to go pick up milk after work and he forgets because there's 500 other things on his mind, right? And then he comes home and she feels maybe rejected or that he doesn't care, that she's not a priority, right? All those things. Um, and that's another piece with ADHD and autism specifically, is there's a lot of rejection sensitivity. Um, so just a very heightened anxiety response when there's perceived rejection. Usually it's perceived. Um, and that happens a lot in my couples. And unfortunately for husband, he just forgot, right? Simple mistake. But unfortunately for partner, that doesn't feel that doesn't feel like it's just forgetting. It's it's you forgot me and I wasn't important enough, right? So that's and I think that happens in in typical, neurotypical relationships too. But I think there's just that added layer um for the neurodiverse relationship.

Speaker 1 26:12

Can we do another example?

Speaker 26:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:15

What's a common example that you see in your practice? Like a miscommunication that would arise.

Speaker 26:22

I think one of the biggest things is tone. So a lot of my autistic, usually autistic males, I want to, you know, I'll qualify usually, not always. Um, but a lot of times my autistic males struggle with hearing their own tone, right? So I call that tone-diff. You know, if you can be tone to music, you could also be tone-deaf to how you sound. Um, and so they will say something, they think it's completely neutral. And their partner's like, that was condescending as heck. Like, what the heck? Why are you talking to me like that? And that happens a lot. And unfortunately, that one's a hard one because partner usually can't change that very much, right? So that's there's a lot of acceptance that comes into play with relationships of like, these are not excuses, because I know that's how it can feel a lot, but these are, I call them um roadblocks. So in couples counseling, you know, we're on a road together trying to get to an end goal, right? For neurodivergent couples, we're not going to be on the same road as everybody else. We have to take a side road because there's certain roadblocks that we can't quite do the same thing. And like you said at the beginning in the intro, we have to create a new communication style, right? And and as therapist, I'm kind of translator until we figure out what that communication style is and what works for each individual couple.

Speaker 1 27:51

Wow, I was wincing while you said um unfortunately, that maybe a person can't change their tone. I'm wondering, I've seen it in my own life with people that I love that they think they have autism and I think they have autism, but there's no, you know, official diagnosis. Um adults, not children, where I have said, hey, bro, that's not great for me. And they have learned to adapt, maybe not everywhere, and maybe not all the time, but enough for me to feel heard and seen and appreci um considered. Is that that's just anecdotal, right? I have no clinical experience with this. Is that something that you have found that people who would normally have a hard time with tone learn to adapt or learn to basically behavior behavioral change because they want to show up for their partner or one of their loved ones?

Masking And Support Swapping

Speaker 29:13

That can happen. I think the the danger with that is that actually is masking in that capacity. Like that person is probably masking. They're masking their, so they're probably on high alert of like, oh, I need to make sure I do this thing so this person feels safe, which is lovely. Like they care about you enough to do that. At the same time, when it's your partner, you want to be able to be in a space where you both can fully unmask and fully be yourselves. And so that's kind of the space that we do create.

Speaker 1 29:47

I'm like if it's that sounds fine to me. What is the wrong?

Speaker 29:53

Yeah. So, but it's it's more like it's more nuanced than that, right? So if partner is okay with doing that, then go for it, right? If that's fine. But the the thing is figuring out what is good for both partners, right? What feels the best, what feels like we're both feeling safe? Because I think that's the biggest piece is feeling safe, feeling heard, feeling understood, and feeling accepted.

Speaker 1 30:16

Yeah, I can see I'm like thinking about it in my mind. And like I said, I'm new to this. So I'm thinking that probably a listener also new to this would be thinking, yeah, but how come the neurodivergent person just gets their cake and eat it too? And why do we have to not get the cake or eat it?

Speaker 30:40

So well, and I think I think it's a back and forth, right? And we I call this support swapping because in neurodivergent relationships, there's usually another thing that another partner does that is really hard for them to change. And I have to make sure that I very specifically make both people feel like they're doing work, right? Because it does feel very one-sided sometimes. Like for example, one of one of my partners does struggle with with the with the tone. So they've accepted that that's going to be a difficult thing for him. But other partner struggles with being on time to things, and that's a big problem for other partner. So there's acceptance around both things, right? So, so nobody escapes from doing the work based on my.

Speaker 1 31:27

Thank you. I would like that. I would like that very much.

Speaker 31:31

For sure. Because that definitely we don't want it to feel one-sided. Um, at the same time, we don't want the neurodivergent partner to feel like they still have to keep masking even in their relationship when they're doing it all the time in society.

Speaker 1 31:45

Yeah. Okay. I am I'll probably get there. Just kidding. But I I do hear what you're saying in terms of neurodivergence is really only one piece. There's still the whole relationship. Sure. And so there's still this support swap going on. And I'm listener, I'm kind of making like a back and forth, like a wave motion with my hands. So it feels a relationship is dynamic if nothing, right? It's it's always moving, it's always changing. And so something I tell the clients that I work with the couples is that everybody's skills and needs are going to constantly be changing. So it's about being attuned to to your own skills and needs in present day and your partner's skills and needs in present day, and how do we kind of ride those waves together? Because nobody's gonna hit it 100% all the time. It's just impossible. We're not gonna be able to do it for our spouses and they're not gonna be able to do it for us. So being having having a sense of awareness and compassion um for ourselves and for each other, I think is what you're saying, Emily.

Shame Work And Feeling Accepted

Speaker 33:02

Absolutely, absolutely. Self-compassion is a big thing that that I have to teach in my couples because um they rarely have it when they've been, you know, felt like they don't fit in or, you know, have to mask in society so long. So there's a lot of, we have to do a lot of shame work, right? A lot of undoing that shame and recognizing that our partners are not putting that on us, right? There's a lot of assumptions that that happen in my couples of like, oh, you're you're just thinking that I'm this way and I'm wrong and I'm broken and all these things, because that's what I've heard my whole life, right? But in reality, it's like, no, your partner's here, they're accepting you. Can you accept that they're accepting you?

Speaker 1 33:42

Can you say more about that statement? That feels pretty deep. Can you accept that they're accepting you?

Speaker 33:49

I think a lot of times uh with neurodivergent individuals, you're you kind of have to keep people a little bit distanced from you unless they are neurodivergent as well, right? Neurotypicals can be scary. Um and so you're kind of taught to like keep them at arm's length, right? Don't let them in too far because you're too weird, you're too broken. There's there's a lot of mess here. Um, and so a lot of my clients are hyper independent, right? They're they're very good at at taking care of themselves because they've had to for so long. And so it is really hard for them to accept that they're different, not messed up, not broken, but different, and that their partner still loves them, even though they are different. And it's a very difficult place to get to, but it's crucial. There's there's two key pieces, I think, for my um couple's um acceptance, and then also grief. There's a lot of grief that happens when you're later diagnosed. So you're first grieving the fact that, oh, I have this new diagnosis, I have to rewrite my whole history, my whole timeline. I have to look at it with this neurodivergent lens. Right. So there's that part for the individual. The partner is also going through a grief moment of like, oh, this person is different than I thought. Right. And, you know, when you're married or with somebody for long enough, you know that you go through stages of change, right? You're constantly changing, you constantly have to adjust to that. But this is such a jarring adjustment, a jarring change that there's a lot of grief that comes with it.

Speaker 1 35:24

And there's no one to blame. Yes. So talk about that piece. Like, okay, I've learned that my wife is neurodivergent, and she really she's not doing this with ill intent. And we have three kids together. For sure, and things are tough. And now what? Tell me about that. Tell me about that. Where do you clients who are figuring it out kind of later in their life? What it what do they do with the grief? Because often it's easier if you can blame something or blame an event or a person or um, you know, just put your anger somewhere, but you can't really put that on somebody who it's not their fault.

Speaker 36:11

Yeah. And I think processing those emotions. So, like, there's a lot of self-blame that happens, right? Because there's already shame around it. So they're self-blaming. They're like, well, this is my fault. I wish I wasn't this way so that you wouldn't have to be dealing with this, right? Um, so it's really just kind of processing these feelings and and getting them out in the open. One of the things I tell my clients is over-communicate, over-communicate, because these feelings need to go somewhere and they can't be put on our partners, they can't be put on ourselves. So we have to talk through it. We have to process it. So processing it and hopefully that leads to acceptance, right? Because you can't blame anything, right? It's it's either trauma, right? Which I guess you can blame that a little bit, but um, but if you're born with it, I guess you can blame your parents, but or your ancestors, but is that really going to be helpful? Right. So a lot of it is is letting go. And I usually have my clients actually write down like what things they hate about their neurodivergence, right? What's frustrating? Because so many people I think say, like, oh, neurodivergence can be a superpower. And for some people that that feels good, that feels empowering. For some people, that's extremely invalidating, right? Because it takes away from the actual struggles they're going through. Um, so I have them like write down what they really hate and they share it with each other. And then at the end of it, they're like, I accept you despite all these things. And we actually say that out loud because once again, it's really hard for us to accept if we can't accept it first.

Speaker 1 37:48

With the acceptance, is there anything that else that you think that partners should understand about each other at a deeper level in terms of, okay, my partner has this, or I have this, and so I'm going to have to live my life differently, or I'm going to have to approach situations differently. Or, like you said earlier, I'm going to have to take a different road than the movies show me a romantic relationship looks like.

Speaker 38:21

I mean, it's even as uh close to home as like my friend's relationship, right? My my brother or sister's relationship is gonna be totally different than that. And that can feel very um scary because especially if you have a relationship in your life that you look up to, right? It's like, oh, we can't do it like that, right? It has to be different. Once again, there's that grief there, right? There's grief around that. Um and I think I think a lot of it is is empathy, right? Showing empathy of like, yeah, your partner's going through this journey themselves and you're going through it. How can we empathize with each other? I I will say most of my couples are actually like going through it together. Um, so that actually brings them a little closer if they allow it to, because you know, they can empathize with each other, of like, yeah, you got diagnosed with ADHD. I got diagnosed with autism. Let's figure this crap out together.

What Gives Hope For These Couples

Speaker 1 39:19

Yeah, that I can see how that can feel almost like a buddy system, you know, when both people at the same time are experiencing this new factor. Well, I guess they've always experienced it, but sometimes naming it and having it official for some people, for me for sure, that helps me kind of fold it into my life in a different way than if I'm just kind of thinking about it. Um Yeah, so I'll definitely have to get your psychiatrist recommendations. Emily, what gives you hope in this type of work that you do with neurodivergent individuals and couples?

Speaker 40:09

Um, that's a very good question. Um, well, one, I think, and I'm biased, right? I'm in my own neurodiverse relationship. Um, but I think if we can get through this roadblock, these roadblocks, right? I think we are some of the strongest couples, right? It's such a, it's almost like trauma bonding in a way, where you're like, okay, we're struggling with this thing together and we're getting through it, right? Um, and so that gives me hope. And also just all my clients, they are so in it. They're so wanting to work with their partners. They're so um, they are gracious, right? They are empathetic. Um, I know there's a stigma around autism that there's no empathy there, but most of my clients feel it in a different way, right? Their partner comes in angry and they suddenly have this emotional physical response to it rather than oh, I can see where they're coming from, right? So we have to figure out where the how the how we feel empathy, right? How can we we share in that? But as soon as we figure out like the community communication part of it, I mean, they can be really solid, right? And I've seen that happen several times. You know, sometimes it doesn't work, right? That's that's that's life. Sometimes it's sometimes it's too far gone, right? Sometimes you've been dealing with this for too long and you just don't have any fight left. Because I I will be honest, it's hard. It's hard. Like couples counseling is already hard, and then you add a layer, and it's it's a lot, so you know, it's not for the faint of heart.

Speaker 1 41:47

That's a that's a great um perspective in terms of the strength and the communication. You know, I think what you're saying is you help clients decode their feelings and their behavior so that they can then meet each other in a way that each of them understands what's happening within themselves and for each other. And then that builds a bridge and then that builds a um, I want to say camaraderie, but that's not what I mean. Um just a strength in between both of them that the relationship can kind of a foundation, that's what I want to say. It contributes to the foundation, and so they have something to stand on when regular things happen.

Reflection Questions And Key Takeaway

Speaker 42:31

Yeah, regular things that maybe cause them more overwhelm than than other people, right? So yeah.

Speaker 1 42:38

Before we start to close, listener, I want to invite you to think about this question. Where in my relationships am I asking for understanding? And uh conversely, where can I offer it? So neurodivergence is this huge umbrella like Emily shared. And I don't want to send you down a rabbit hole of figuring out if the people in your life are neurodivergent or not. That's not my intention. That can be really, really overwhelming. Um, but maybe something in this episode hit you where you thought, maybe I am, or maybe someone I love is, or maybe my kiddo is, and all that's okay. And I I actually don't even want you to do anything with that information right now. Sometimes I think that that can be a lot to think about. And I have faith in you and I completely believe in you. So I know that this little seed, if you're listening and you're thinking about it, I know that the seed will plant itself where it needs to plant itself in your life, and your awareness will go unfolding in the time and space that you can handle it, and in the time and space that you need to handle it. So no rush on that. But I do think what we can all take away from this conversation is maybe some. Somebody's misunderstanding you and maybe you're misunderstanding somebody. And if we can kind of create a little space where we can offer ourselves grace and the other person grace, maybe we can listen more so we can be listened to more. Or just be curious about something like, you know what? I've been trying it this way for 87 years and he keeps forgetting the milk. So maybe there's something else there. Um so maybe just looking at those patterns too. Is there something you've been trying in a certain relationship over and over and over and over? And it's not working. Okay. Maybe let's try maybe just let's try to let in some awareness that maybe something else could work. Emily, before we wrap up, I just wanted to say thank you, thank you, thank you. This was so lovely, so informative, and I love hearing your perspective because it has so much compassion.

Speaker 45:03

Oh, thank you. And thank you so much for having me. I do have a lot of compassion for for neurodivergent folks and people in relationships. Cause one, I've experienced it. So I have so much empathy for people that are struggling. Um, and that's kind of why I got into this. Like initially, I was never going to be a neurodivergent counselor. That was, I was like, nope, not. That's too close to home. And it found me, and the universe has a way of having a sense of humor.

How To Work With Emily

Speaker 1 45:32

Well, your clients are lucky to have you. How can people connect with you and find you, work with you?

Speaker 45:40

Um, so I work for Susan Gonzalez in Associates Counseling. Um, so our website's Susan Gonzalez Counseling.com. Um, you can find me there. And hopefully soon I'll be launching my own private coaching business. So be on the lookout for that. Exciting. What do you mean, coaching? What do you mean? Hoping to start a business where I can help other therapists learn about how to do this type of work. Um, and also, you know, kind of launch a class for individuals and for couples that are struggling that might not be able to afford like just normal therapy. Um, so that's I'm kind of working on that in the moment, but hopefully soon I'll have that that launched.

Closing And Listener Calls To Action

Speaker 1 46:21

That's awesome. I think that that is so needed. So good job and good luck. Listener, I will leave all of Emily's information in the show notes so you can find her when you are ready. Today we talked about something so many people experience but don't always have the language for. And that's that love can be present and sometimes it can get lost in translation. We explored hunter divergence shapes communication, why misunderstanding happens, and how small shifts like curiosity, pause, and compassion can change everything. But if you take one thing with you today, let it be this. A connection doesn't require sameness, it just requires a willingness, a willingness to learn and be curious and to see each other again and again. Emily, thank you for the work you're doing and thank you for being here today. And listen, wherever you are, I am so, so glad you're here. You make my dreams come true every time you listen to this show. We're in this together. And until next time, take good care of yourself. Thank you for spending this time with me. If something from today's conversation resonated, or if you're in a season where support would help, visit me at gotttheahollam.com. That's C-A-T-I-A-H-O-L-M.com. You can also leave an anonymous question for the show by calling or texting 956-249-7930. I'd love to hear what's on your heart. If Couch Time with Cat has been meaningful to you, it would mean so much if you'd subscribe, rate, and leave a review. It helps others find us and it grows this community of care. And if you know someone who needs a little light right now, send them this episode. Remind them they're not alone. Until next time, be gentle with yourself, keep showing up, and know I'm right here with you.