You Were Never Meant To Carry It Alone with Pastor Gaylon Clark

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In this episode, we explore why healing happens faster when we stop carrying everything alone and let safe people and safe faith practices hold some of the weight. Pastor Gaylon Clark joins me to connect neuroscience, worship, mental health, and real-world support into a picture of community that feels loving and practical. 

• nervous system safety through presence and attunement 
• why isolation increases stress and anxiety 
• worship as humility that opens us to God and others 
• the pull of rugged individualism and how it distorts perspective 
• why success can tempt us to drift from what centers us 
• letting go of shame-based messages and trusting God’s love 
• how a church can show up in crisis with tangible help 
• leadership loneliness and the need for mutually supportive relationships 
• making space for therapy and faith to coexist 
• finding belonging beyond the crowd through small groups 
• simple practices for connection like kindness and curiosity c 

Show Guest:

Pastor Gaylon Clark is the Lead Pastor of Greater Mt. Zion Church in Austin, Texas, where he has faithfully served for over 25 years. With a heart for both spiritual growth and community impact, he has led the church in expanding its outreach locally and globally—launching initiatives that address poverty, education, economic empowerment, and mental health.

A passionate advocate for community transformation, Pastor Clark plays a key leadership role in citywide efforts such as Dream Together 2030, where he helps guide mental health initiatives aimed at building a more compassionate Austin. Under his leadership, Greater Mt. Zion has become a hub of support and connection, offering resources like food and clothing pantries, financial assistance programs, and educational partnerships.

Pastor Clark holds degrees from Dallas Baptist University and Dallas Theological Seminary, and is deeply committed to fostering meaningful relationships, spiritual belonging, and holistic well-being. He lives in Austin with his wife, Kathy, and is the proud father of their son, Michael.

You can connect with Pastor Clark at Greater Mt. Zion, on Instagram, or on Facebook.

Transcript

Welcome And A Gentle Check-In

Speaker 3 0:00

Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for real conversation and a gentle check-in. KWVH presents Couch Time with Cat. Hi friends, and welcome to Couch Time with Cat, Mental Wellness with a Friendly Voice. I'm Cat, therapist, bestselling author, TEDx speaker, and endurance athlete. But most of all, I'm a wife, mama, and someone who deeply believes that people are good and healing is possible. Here in the Hill Country of Wimberley, Texas, I've built my life and practice around one purpose to make mental wellness feel accessible, compassionate, and real. This show is for those moments when life feels heavy, when you're craving clarity, or when you just need to hear, you're not alone. Each week we'll explore the terrain of mental wellness through stories, reflections, research, and tools you can bring into everyday life. Think of it as a conversation between friends, rooted in science, guided by heart, and grounded in the belief that healing does not have to feel clinical. It can feel like sitting on a couch with someone who gets it. So whether you're driving, walking, cooking, or simply catching your breath, you're welcome here. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and reminded of your own strength. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive

Healing Was Never A Solo Job

Speaker 3 1:21

in. What if the thing you've been trying to carry on your own was never meant to be carried alone? Today we're talking about healing, faith, and the kind of community that doesn't just show up when life is easy, but holds you when it's not. There's a moment that happens for so many of us. It's quiet, almost invisible. It's the moment when something inside you says, I don't think I can do this anymore. And maybe you don't say it out loud. Maybe you keep showing up, smiling, functioning, holding it all together. But underneath there's a longing to be seen, to be supported, and to not have to carry everything by yourself. And yet, somewhere along the way, many of us learn that strength looks like independence, that needing people is a weakness, that we should be able to figure it out on our own. But what if that's not true? What if healing was never meant to be a solo journey? What if the very thing we've been avoiding, being vulnerable, being known, is actually where healing begins? Because the truth is we are wired for a connection. And today's conversation is about reclaiming that truth and about what it means to be held in community emotionally, spiritually, and tenderly. You're listening to Couch Time with Cat. I'm Cat, and today we're talking about healing in community and why we're not meant to do this life alone. There's something powerful that happens when we're safe and in supportive relationships. From a neuroscience perspective, our nervous systems are constantly scanning for safety. And one of the strongest signals of safety is another human who is present, attuned, and compassionate. Studies show that connection regulates our stress response, lowers anxiety, and increases resilience. In other words, we calm down together. And on the flip side, isolation doesn't just feel painful, it actually impacts our mental and physical health in significant ways. But this isn't just science, it's also spiritual truth. The idea that we are created for relationship both with God and with one another is deeply rooted in faith traditions. So today we're exploring what happens when those two worlds meet, when community becomes a space not just for gathering, but for healing.

Meet Pastor Galen Clark

Speaker 3 4:01

And today's guest embodies this conversation in such a profound and lived way. Pastor Galen Clark has spent the past 25 years serving as lead pastor of Greater Mount Zion Church in Austin, Texas, a thriving, deeply rooted faith community lovingly known as Greater. But his impact extends far beyond the walls of the church. For over three decades, he has shared life with his wife Cathy, whom he describes as the gentlest soul on the planet. And together they've built a life grounded in faith, family, and service. Under Pastor Clark's leadership, Greater has grown not just in size, but in purpose, launching eight great causes that address real challenges in the community from poverty and education to health and economic empowerment. He's helped create food and clothing pantries, a community assistance center for those in crisis, and has played a key role in citywide initiatives like Education Connection, supporting students across Austin, and Dream Together 2030, where he leads mental health initiatives aimed at building a more compassionate and equitable city. And his vision doesn't stop locally. Through greater lives are being impacted from East Austin to East Africa, with a medical clinic in Kenya, ongoing educational support, and global outreach rooted in dignity and care. At the core of it all, it's a simple but powerful belief. Life is about relationships, the rest is just details. And he truly lives that. And listener, he has been a pivotal and integral part of my faith journey and my relationship with God. It is an absolute honor and privilege to have him here. PC.

Speaker 5:57

It's a great joy to be here. And uh just to see you and see you in this uh community. Um here in Wimberley and just the joy that I see on your face. Thank you, PC. The belonging that you shared uh with me that you feel here. Um it does my heart good.

Speaker 3 6:16

Thank you, PC. Oh my gosh, your bio, what a giant you are. Does it feel good to hear all that?

Speaker 6:23

Uh well, I tell you what, it um it makes me feel grateful. Because you know, we we just wanted to do our little part and our little part of the world. My gosh. And um it um it was just one step at a time.

Speaker 3 6:42

What a difference you're making. Yeah. Wow. I hope you feel proud of yourself as well.

Speaker 6:48

Well, I feel fulfilled. Does that make sense? I I really know that I am doing what I am placed on the planet to do.

Speaker 3 6:59

You had a big assignment.

Speaker 7:00

Yeah, yeah. And uh, and so that is a healthy place, right? And uh to know that you're doing what you are created for.

Speaker 3 7:11

Yes.

Speaker 7:12

There's uh great meaning in that. Um and you are doing what it is that you really would do for free if you could eat without doing, you know. I totally get it. Uh I mean, I um I don't feel like I'm I'm working most of the test.

Speaker 3 7:30

Yeah.

Speaker 7:31

Yeah.

Speaker 3 7:31

I get that. Same.

Speaker 7:32

Yeah.

Speaker 3 7:33

Same. I feel I'm in the pocket. That's it. Which feels I don't know. There's just a there's a rootedness to it. And even though things are difficult, it really also comes with a weird ease. I don't know how difficult an ease can be together, but they are. Yes. Sometimes.

Speaker 7:52

Yes. It is. It is um it's an ease because uh you're shaped for it. You know, your writing and uh your therapy, and uh that's what you're shaped for.

Speaker 3 8:06

Can you tell us a little bit about Greater Mount Zion? Sure. The great Greater Mount Zion.

Speaker 8:10

Well, Greater Mount Zion is a what we like to call a place where um people can connect with others and experience life at its best, that we are partnering one with another so that uh all of us can live our richest lives. And um, but embracing the fullness of our humanity. That that uh embracing our humanity is not at odds with um flourishing or achieving what it is that God has placed in our hearts to do.

Speaker 3 8:50

Or that do I hear you saying kind of like we can be all of who we are and still be in a church community?

Speaker 9:00

Uh in fact, I would say if God is God, then all of who I am is connected to Him. And so there's a part of who I am that is still incomplete if I don't see God as a reference point for what I'm doing. And Philly, in in reality, the ultimate reference point, because if we serve a sovereign God, then it just makes all the sense in the world that I am positioned where he wants me to be, and that I have a a kind of God-shaped design.

Speaker 3 9:41

Mm-hmm. That's beautiful, listener.

When Worship Softens The Soul

Speaker 3 9:45

Um a friend invited me to Greater Mount Zion in 2012, and she had a friend in the band, and she said, Let's go watch him play saxophone or something like that. And I thought, what? I was not a church going person back then. And in fact, I thought, I don't want to go to church. I'm having too fun going out. I don't want somebody to tell me not to go out. That doesn't feel fun. I was in my 20s. And she said, Come on, let's try it. I said, fine. So I went with her, and you know what? She introduced me to church, she introduced me to greater, and she introduced me to my husband. So she shout out to Carrie. Yeah, where is she? Wow, yeah, it was just her birthday a few days ago. So wow, I just I had never had that thought. And when I walked in, I was immediately inside of the Holy Spirit. It was so powerful. Tell the listener, Greater Mount Zion is now on Tanney Hill, but not too long ago, where was it?

Speaker 10:52

It was at 1801 Pennsylvania Avenue. That's right. In Austin, Texas, just across from uh Keeling Middle School.

Speaker 3 11:02

And how many services a day would you have to have to fit us all in there?

Speaker 11:05

We did three services eight, ten, and twelve. And there was a season, I don't even know if you knew about this, there was a season in which we did Saturday at five as well.

Speaker 3 11:15

Yes, I was there during that. So four services.

Speaker 11:19

Four services at Lord. The serving teams said, uh uh, Pastor, you know, we know you have a heart for people, and and this Saturday night service is uh it's a great idea, but uh you're killing us.

Speaker 3 11:35

Yeah, we're tired.

Speaker 11:36

You're killing us. Uh we had this thing where if you were serving uh that Sunday, you'd have to do all four of them.

Speaker 3 11:45

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 11:46

Yeah. So and then when you had a break, you had a good break, right? But you had to do all four of them. And um, yeah. It worked worked for about a year and a half.

Speaker 3 11:56

There were two or three hundred people per service.

Speaker 12:00

Yeah. Yes, a little more than that, actually. More than that. 400. We held it held 500. Oh, it held 500. Oh, wow, a lot more than that. Very uncomfortably.

Speaker 3 12:09

I always had in the front, so it didn't matter to me.

Speaker 12:11

Yeah. Five hundred people very uncomfortably, though.

Speaker 3 12:15

So five hundred times four.

Speaker 12:17

No, five hundred, and I think we had three uh at the eight and twelve fundamentally. So what's that? Okay. About eleven hundred. That's a lot. That's all at the twelve o'clock service. Yeah, the parking lot was fun. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh not um yeah. It was uh inadequate. Let's see.

Speaker 3 12:38

So you all moved to a bigger location. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 12:41

Yeah. We are uh we moved three miles away from where we are, and it was uh it was a tough decision. You know, there was a there was something about that smaller church. And by the way, that's probably a metaphor for what we're talking about today, right? Uh there's something about proximity and uh being physically proximate with somebody. Yes, I agree. That increases intimacy. Yes. It uh it kind of uh it forces it. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 13:15

Or invites it.

Speaker 13:16

Or invites it. Um or forcefully invites it. That's right. That's right. Um but it's uh it's hard to escape the warmth if the if the community is a warm community.

Speaker 3 13:30

Yes, yes, and I remember just absorbing the spirit from the elders and their beautiful hats and their pearls and their you know, their joy. You could feel it. And so my 26 or 27-year-old reluctance was quickly just kind of wrapped up in a blanket by these ladies' enthusiasm. Yes, I thought, oh, okay, you're happy, I'm happy. This is good. Like it was it was very convincing, right?

Speaker 14:05

Right. Yeah, so it was love.

Speaker 3 14:07

It was love.

Speaker 14:08

There was love was uh vibrant in the space. And um, I think you know, communities, uh church communities, that is what makes you know connecting to a larger body of people catalytic. And that's um that's called worship, right? We we go to worship services, but worship does not always take place. Worship is disarming. Worship opens our hearts to God, and it opens our hearts to others. And even when we are uh not necessarily looking for that, there's a there's a softening of the soul that occurs.

Speaker 3 14:55

There is a humility in worship, obviously, toward God, and that we have to well, I'll speak for myself. Actually, I don't feel well, let me just continue. Let me fumble through this. A humility to say, I need you, I need something outside of myself. And you know, it was not long ago, probably six months ago, I was at a church service and um I was having a hard time, and at the beginning, the pastor said, Come down to the altar and let us pray for you. And I thought, no way, no way, I'm not walking down there. It was one it's a church with a like a mezzanine style. I thought, hell no, I'm not walking.

Speaker 1 15:42

Was it your first time? There. Okay.

Speaker 3 15:46

And then he did the service, and at the end of the service, he said, if you want us to pray for you and you have a prayer request, come down and the prayer team will help you. And I heard God say, Humble yourself to me. And I thought, yes, okay. And I got my purse and I walked down and I sobbed. I think I knew as soon as I got my purse and walked down, I was gonna boo hoo, and I just wasn't ready to boohoo at that moment.

Speaker 2 16:16

Right, right.

Speaker 3 16:17

But the second invite, I heard God say, humble yourself to me. And it's not like I haven't done that before, but it was in a season where I was feeling a little, I was a little tough around the edges. And um I just hadn't gone to God in a request for to help me through this tough season. And so I was just kind of bulldozing. Yes, yes, and it all changed.

Speaker 2 16:44

Yeah.

Speaker 3 16:44

As soon as I entered into that space of humility, and then there's something about seeing other people at the same time, adults. Sometimes I forget I'm an adult PC.

Speaker 16:58

They're really grown people. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 17:01

And when their arms are in the air and they're holding each other on the shoulder and they're, you know, just these types of things. There's something about everybody being in humility together. Yes. That is so transformational. Yes. What have you seen when people come in humility together?

Speaker 17:19

Yeah. I I think what happens is you connect with people who have similar convictions about life. And when I enter into that space and I see other people in a self-giving way, worshiping or singing, or I hear a preacher open up that that scripture and share something that's universal. And uh if if I have uh a conviction that the Bible really does express God's heart through the stories and through the values and principles that are taught, um there's something comforting about that. And what we uh are reminded of is that God is uh benevolent, He loves us because that's what's being celebrated.

Speaker 3 18:11

Yes.

Speaker 18:12

God is big, like He's actually bigger than anything we are experiencing, and we forget that in isolation. Yes, we forget the bigness of God, the compassion of God, the uh intricate involvement of God, that often that uh we meet God in those places of extremity.

Speaker 2 18:36

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 18:38

In fact, I can't think of the person who used who said it, but I've quoted it a lot over the years. Thank you for bringing it to mind today because I hadn't quoted it in a while. But uh the the quote is extremity is the frequent meeting place with God.

Speaker 3 18:56

Oh, amen to that.

Speaker 18:58

And is that not true?

Speaker 3 18:59

That is, that gave me goose bumps.

Speaker 19:00

Yeah, it is the frequent meeting place with God. People are usually more open to God in moments of success, but profoundly in moments of misfortune. Yes.

Speaker 3 19:14

Yeah, yes, yeah. I heard somebody say recently, it's not that things aren't gonna go wrong in life if you love God and follow God. It's that you have somewhere to go when they don't.

Speaker 19:28

Yeah, that's a good way of expressing it.

Speaker 3 19:30

And I thought, yeah, I don't need things to be perfect, but I need support when they don't. Yes.

Speaker 19:36

Yes.

Speaker 3 19:37

PC, why do you think we well, we need each other for support, and we need each other in the extreme, as you said, in the extremities.

The Pull Toward Independence

Speaker 3 19:51

So why do we try to carry life alone? Why do we do that?

Speaker 19:56

Yes. Um because that's who we are. You know, that's just who we are. Um in our humanness, we really do want to live independent of God. I mean, just stop and think about it. That's the that's our natural instinct. We want to live independent of God and yet still make life work. And just stop and think about it. Would wouldn't that be like um um more a celebration of self?

Speaker 3 20:28

Like rugged individualism. I did it. I did it. I'm self-made.

Speaker 20:33

That's exactly right. You know, and uh that would that's really good for my sense of self in a human way. Sure, your ego. My ego. My um uh my sense of uh who I am and uh what it is that I think I can do will be enhanced, I guess, in quotes. Uh but the reality is that uh you mention um this whole idea of needing God in moments of misfortune. I would say we need God in some ways more in moments of success. Why do you say that? Because that independence it's rooted in an exaggerated view of myself.

Speaker 3 21:17

You lose perspective. You lose perspective.

Speaker 21:20

And we we need God to help us maintain perspective in success as much as we need him for resilience and sorrow.

Speaker 3 21:30

You know, back to this moment, come no, you know, this literal come to Jesus moment that I had. And I've had a long relationship with Jesus and God, and I love Jesus and God, and just like a human, I kind of forget and I I don't stray in my faith, but I stray in my practice. Yes. And I pray all the time and I write gratitude, and almost every single night I write in my gratitude. Journal, God's Grace, Love, and Protection almost every night. But it doesn't mean I'm going to church every Sunday or what have you. And things started getting rough again a few months ago or a month ago or so in this particular situation that I had originally come to Jesus about. And I thought, what has changed? And I thought, God damn. You know what has changed? I stopped going to church. I stopped going to church. And I thought, for for no bad reason, I thought, oh, we got to take the puppy to puppy classes and I got soccer, you know, just regular life stuff. But I thought, oh, my center has changed. I don't think that that's a God made my life harder. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying my perspective and my center shifted. Right. And then all of a sudden things started, you know, it was like driving a little junky car down the street is kind of it's going, but it's kind of clunking along.

Speaker 23:01

That's right. That's right. I I think that is that is the reality of the faith journey. At the end of the day, uh worship is attentiveness to God. And uh I enjoy God to the extent that I am attentive to Him. And we live in a world where there are so many distractions.

Speaker 3 23:28

Good Lord, that is the truth, yes.

Speaker 23:30

And it's easy to just scroll YouTube than to like be mindful. You know, to have a conversation when I don't really want to talk. Uh uh when I when I um am going through something and I don't feel like I I will be received well, whether by friends or family, uh, when I'm hurting in a way that I don't even understand. Or sometimes when I just want to be upset. It is attentiveness to God that helps me to like break out of that that uh that space of I want to say rebellion, but really it's not rebellion. It's just the humanness of not knowing how to engage this in a healthy way or forgetting. And that community that you're talking about, being in a faith community, oh, and here's another one. Tell me having people, individuals, one-on-one relationships, one-on-three relationships, small groups of people who keep us mindful of God, who keep us mindful of the fact that, hey man, God is here. Like, uh, even as you said, uh, God hadn't gotn't gone anywhere. He was still there. That's right. Uh it you um got engaged, like so many of us do, in doing good things. They were not bad things, they were good priorities. But uh if I prioritize things that displace God, then um, you know, it I usually drift the the the pull of the soul is to drift away from God.

Speaker 3 25:21

Yes, it's how quickly can we return.

Speaker 25:23

Yes.

Speaker 3 25:24

You know, and gentle. This is not mean or bad. It's just like, oh, just I did it again.

Speaker 25:32

Yes. And God is like, I knew you were going to be. Yeah, I knew you would. Uh and uh He's also like not upset with us. That's uh that is so important.

God Is Not Mad At You

Speaker 25:47

Um every now and then I will remind our church in several ways that um God is not mad at you.

Speaker 3 25:57

I love that about you and about Greater. Yes. Listener, I went to Greater five years or so, and then we moved away, and um it wasn't l what's the word I'm looking for, it wasn't practical. I had two young kids and it wasn't practical. So um I I've kind of hopped around to other church communities, but no church has ever really replaced that in my heart. And sometimes when we go church, not shopping because I don't want to reduce it to that, but you know, trying to find a place for our family, uh a church home. One time I took my daughter, my eldest, and she said, I don't like it here. She said, God loves me, and I don't know why they tell me that he's mad at me. I don't know why they tell me I'm not worthy.

Speaker 1 26:50

She she wasn't that is your daughter for sure. She's that perceptive.

Speaker 3 26:56

She was like, that pastor's wrong. I said, Wow, yeah. And I think she was nine. I mean, it's been a while since she told me that. And I said, I hear you. I agree. Yes. She said, I I I think God really loves me. So I'm not, I don't like hearing that he doesn't. And you know, some faith communities, um, and I grew up Catholic, and I'm not here to rag on Catholics. Just my particular church and how I grew up was shame was more shame-based. And so, and listen, shame will get you to behave, that is for sure. So um I think there was a place for I think that's ultimately what they were trying to do, you know, back then in the 80s. I don't think it was mean spirited, but um I love that at Greater you say God loves you.

Speaker 27:48

Yes. Um, we have no message if we don't have that. Um we've missed the entire message of the scriptures if we don't have that. Um the theme of scripture is the redemptive love of Jesus Christ. And so we have to always remember that no matter what we see in all of the other books, all of the specific commands, there's just one hero. There's one true hero. And the reason why in the old covenant there was not a king, there was not a succession of kings who would rule in justice and who would honor the needs of the people is because it's impossible for a human to do that. There had to be Jesus, there had to be this God man, this one who had the heart of God to show us how to walk with God and to give his life for all of our brokenness. And that's what he did. And that is the very definition of love. And all of the questions about God's love for me, they have been answered at the cross. All of them have been answered. No matter where I am in life, the question of God's love has been forever settled. And uh he rose from the dead to embrace me and make sure I experience that love.

Speaker 3 29:33

I feel um ridiculously lucky right now. Listener, I need you to know that. I am listening here and just tearing up, and I'm just so grateful for you. I am so grateful for you. Wow. What a gift you are. You're listening to Couch Time with Cat. I'm Cat and I'm trying to get it together here. And today we're speaking with Pastor Gail Galen Clark of Greater Mount Zion Church in Austin about healing in community and why we're not meant to do life alone. PC, can I change the direction a bit? Yes.

Showing Up In Crisis

Speaker 3 30:14

Greater does so much for people in crisis. What does it look like for community to truly show up in somebody's hardest season, whether that's a death or a a large on a large scale, for example, COVID or unemployment or what have you, what does that look like in your church?

Speaker 30:35

Yeah. Well, I think the first thing that we want to do is just be present. Um we um we try not to have um ten cent answers for people's million dollar questions. Yeah.

Speaker 3 30:55

No bumper sticker response.

Speaker 30:57

No, you know, uh and try to not to tell people how to feel. We certainly want to be encouraging and we certainly want to share our stories. Um but it begins there. You know, most of the time people don't give you permission to really enter into their space uh fully. If you don't have that emotionally. Yes. You know, we want to serve people, but we want people to feel something.

Speaker 3 31:28

Yes.

Speaker 31:28

We want to want them to feel this is an act of love. Now, um, and so when we talk about grief or despair or uh mental health challenges, and this is what we desire. We we want people to feel the presence of God through us because that's what we do. That's who we are, that's our self-definition, to love our neighbor as ourselves. So this is what we do. Now, when we talk about providing for um people's needs, whether uh they are um you know, have a need for food or they have a need for community assistance or rental assistance, things of this nature. Uh we want to do that to whatever extent we can. Um for COVID, we actually partnered with uh the capital um capital area food bank and uh we we distributed food for three weeks. Wow. Every day. Wow. Yeah, we did food boxes for them. And so um, you know, benevolence is evidence of uh God's heart.

Speaker 3 32:42

PC, how many sermons do you think you've given? Have you ever counted?

Speaker 32:48

I can't. I um yeah, I don't know. Yeah, but I'm I'm I'm hoping that the next one will be as transformative as whichever one I did before. Um yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 3 33:06

I mean, yeah. So how old are you, PC? Tell me.

Speaker 33:11

Tell us. I don't want to tell. I don't want to tell. I have aging issues. We talk about our humanness, like I'm thankful to God for being alive. But I'm 58. Oh, Jesus. I'm 58 going on 42. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 33:27

And you started studying in seminary.

Calling, Pain, And Transformation

Speaker 3 33:30

How old?

Speaker 33:31

Well, I went to um seminary when I was 22, but I I went to even in college, I went to um um college to get a degree in Bible.

Speaker 2 33:45

You did?

Speaker 33:45

I went to Dallas Baptist University, and I knew I wanted to preach when I was 16 years old.

Speaker 3 33:52

Wow.

Speaker 33:52

Yeah.

Speaker 3 33:53

How did you know that?

Speaker 33:55

Well, that's one of those things you just feel this inner calling to do. And uh it was uh and and by the way, it happens differently for everybody. Sure. There are some people they just realize this is their gift, this is their um, this is their space where they feel most competent, and um, and uh and people affirm them and and uh and they realize, okay, well, this is where God wants me to go. Well, I just woke up one day and just felt like God was calling me to preach. I I mean it was really that simple. Um and uh and certainly I had some influences. My brother gave his life to Jesus when he was uh in college. Um it's amazing how God uses pain to transform lives. He had a fiance who was unfaithful to him. And you know, he was a good-looking guy. He he never experienced anything like that. He loved her and all of this, yes. And um, out of the wreckage of that, this is good. Out of the wreckage of that, he turned to God. He gave his life to Jesus. He um had was going to school to get a business degree, turned 180 degrees, I guess. Is that right? Sure. 180. I'm a philosopher, not a mathematician. Okay, so he he um turned from where he was, wow, and he became a preacher. Well, he moved back home. And so I had an up close view of what it looked like to walk with Jesus. I had been in church all my life. I was a drug baby. I mean, my parents drugged me to church all and all day and through the week, and but I never really um connected, I never really saw someone whose face was radiant because of the joy that uh they were experiencing. Connected to Jesus. That's right. Okay, and um, and so because of his life, it led me to Jesus. And so we talk about brokenness, brokenness leading to fulfillment and wholeness and healing the transformation of lives, absolutely. Wow, beautiful, and um, you know, um I see that in my story, you know. I see that in my story. You

Depression, Leadership, And Honest Faith

Speaker 36:44

know, I I have a mental health challenge. Um and um, you know, I struggle with uh with depression, and uh in all of that that I have experienced, um I have become a better man, a better pastor, a better preacher, I have fewer answers for people, and um and certainly more appreciative of what God has honored me to do. Um and it is in that place of brokenness that more fruit comes, right?

Speaker 3 37:25

Yes, I don't understand it, but I too have experienced similar things. And something I remember is that you brought uh there were there was a guest speaker once or twice, and it was from a I don't even remember the organization, forgive me, it's been 10 years or so, but some type of mental health organization, and you gave them the mic at church, and they said you can have in so many words, therapy and God. That's right. They do not have to be exclusive. No. I had never seen anything like that in a church. Yeah. How did you know your congregation needed it? I mean, we're all human, so we all need it, but how what gave you that idea to bring in help into the church and say, hey, we're just at a little table out front, if you need anything? You're welcome here in terms of the mental health support, even if you love Jesus. Yes. This is not, you don't have to only rely on Jesus. Yeah.

Speaker 38:37

Yeah, and I um I just think talking to people and listening to their stories. And of course, kind of what I was just sharing, there's a sensitivity that comes to these matters when you've experienced them. Um and oftentimes as as a Christians, we either have not experienced them or we don't really talk to people, really share in a vulnerable, open way. Um and oftentimes we just don't have the language for it.

Speaker 3 39:16

It's not that we're trying to hide. We're not trying to hide, we just don't know. That's right.

Speaker 39:20

Um, but uh we're in a different era, thank God, where uh the conversations about mental well-being and uh mental health are being had more, and the church is in a different space, and um and that's that's a good thing. But I would also say um we have to amplify that message. Um at the end of the of the day, joy is the serious business of heaven.

Speaker 3 39:54

What do you mean by that?

Speaker 39:55

I mean that God's agenda is for your well for your sense of well-being. I want you to think about this. We're on our way, if we believe in the scriptures, to a place where there's no more death, no more dying, no more weeping, uh, no more sickness. There's a we're going to a place where there's where nobody like gets angry at each other. There's no DMs and Republicans and none of these things.

Speaker 3 40:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 40:30

It's a place of um peace and joy and wholeness. We can only hope. We're we're all we're on our way there. But God, God does not want us to just wait for the joy over there. Listen to what Jesus says. He says, Come unto me all who are weary and carrying heavy loads, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me. For I am gentle. I'm gentle and humble in heart, and listen, you will find rest for your souls. God is more interested in our joy than we could ever imagine. In fact, the goal of Jesus' teaching is joy. He says, I've told you these things so that your joy may be complete.

Speaker 3 41:27

Yes, they're there are guidelines to help us find joy, not to keep us down. Exactly. So to speak.

Speaker 2 41:36

Yes.

Speaker 3 41:37

Earlier we were talking about maybe we don't have the language.

Finding Safe People Beyond The Crowd

Speaker 3 41:42

What would you say to people who maybe feel like they have to have it all together in a spiritual space? Yeah. That they they don't feel comfortable or yeah, they're scared of what it's going to how they're going to be received, or that people are going to look down upon them if they don't have it all together.

Speaker 42:02

Yes. I just think uh what's important is for us to participate in spiritual communities that don't make you feel like that. And uh they are they are available.

Speaker 3 42:15

They sure are. Great amount of time. That's a lot of people.

Speaker 42:17

They are, they are available. And and sometimes you have to get beyond the crowd to see that. Like um you may have to go to a smaller grouping of people, like a men's group or a women's group or an event. Um then get into smaller groups, yeah.

Speaker 3 42:35

Like you gotta you gotta walk out a little bit further to find that.

Speaker 42:39

Yes. You know, I tell our people walk slowly through the crowd. When you walk slowly through the crowd, you will be amazed that in very small ways you can touch people. Kindness is like a God magnet, you know. And you ask people just questions about life and I mean being in a being caringly curious. People remember that.

Speaker 3 43:05

They sure do.

Speaker 43:06

You know, uh looking people in the face um patiently, locking eyes with them, old skills.

Speaker 3 43:15

Um skills.

Speaker 43:17

Yes, what about that?

Speaker 3 43:18

Yes, yeah, just basic Yes, sir, no ma'am, shaking hands, huh? How are you? How's your baby? How you know?

Speaker 43:26

That's right. Yeah. And uh and so those spaces are um they are around. I think the the challenge becomes the narrative that we've had and that we've been told. And it's always people who disrupt. People disrupt the narrative that we've been told. People hurt us and people heal us.

Speaker 3 43:53

That's my work. Yes.

Speaker 43:54

That's it. It takes people to heal us. And even with with church hurt. We have to go into a space or we have to find a group of people who um around whom we feel whole and uh or at least we feel willing to uh to try. That's right. That's right, willing to try. Yeah. I will also say though that um, you know, it is important for communities of faith to celebrate people's humanity, for pastors to do that. You know, I I um once a year I share my mental health challenge with the church. And I do it very intentionally. Um and you just would not believe the amount of people who come up to me and talk about that, and uh, and who feel like, man, um, there's nothing wrong with me. You know, if Pastor Clark can get up here and say he was depressed and he takes off, and at one point I took off for a year. I remember because I couldn't get myself together, and I said, I'm taking time to study what it is I'm enduring.

Speaker 3 45:12

I'm so proud of you for that. Yeah, it was a real model for people to love themselves well.

Speaker 45:18

Yes.

A Breath And A Support Check

Speaker 3 45:19

Yes, listener, I want to invite you into a moment here and take a deep breath. You guys know I'm always inviting you to take deep breaths. Yes. And gently ask yourself where in your life do you feel supported right now? And additionally, where might you be carrying something alone that you don't have to? It's always about awareness, it's never about judgment or condemnation. It's just a little moment of awareness for you and the life that you're creating. You're listening to Couch Time with Cat. I'm Cat, and today we're speaking with Pastor Galen Clark of Greater Mount Zion Church in Austin about healing and community and why we're not meant to do this life alone.

Caring For Yourself With Silence

Speaker 3 46:10

PC, you carry so much as a leader. How do you personally take care of your own emotional well-being kind of in a maintenance level? How do you pour into yourself?

Speaker 46:24

Very imperfectly. Very imperfectly. But there are there are always things that tap into that human part of us that uh tap into um our longing for God and our longing for our own sense of well-being. And the thing for me that's important is uh silence, is to be quiet, to unplug, and to read. And it's something about reading that calms me, it uh refocuses me. And I'm I'm I'm talking about reading the scriptures, yes, but I'm talking about more than the scriptures, just the act of reading and being reflective. Um yeah, it it centers me. And uh, and so that is what I do, that's the starting place. And it strangely it connects me to eating better and you know, watching the other things that I do. But if if I don't start there, I'll miss it in the other places or be inconsistent in the other places.

Speaker 3 47:46

I have never thought you don't get to go to church.

Speaker 47:49

No. Yeah.

Speaker 3 47:52

Do you have you ever, I'm sure you have, visited another church and attended service.

Speaker 47:57

Yeah, I take off and uh when I take off, I go to other spaces. And sometimes I don't go anywhere. You know, I I do church. I mean, so sometimes I get the joy of um uh doing what uh you know, 30 or 40 percent of the church that our pastor does, you know, just I'm not going, you know. I'm just you know once or twice a month, they just don't come. And so I I oh this is uh not bad, but you know, I get a little antsy sometimes if I'm not tired, right? Yes. Uh but uh yeah, it's I I you and I are cut from the same cloth. Yes. Yes, yeah. So that that is that's the big thing. I am I do it imperfectly though. Um I wish I took better, like more consistent care of myself. I've lost a lot of weight, have you noticed?

Speaker 3 48:51

Looking good, PC.

Speaker 48:52

I I've lost weight and and uh part of that is um you know being more centered, being more connected to my own soul.

Speaker 3 49:02

Ah, knowing what you need.

Speaker 49:04

Knowing what I need.

Speaker 3 49:05

That's right, and following through. Often a lot of the time. Often we know what we need and we don't follow through. We just turn the other corner.

Speaker 49:15

Yeah. Why do you think that is though?

Speaker 3 49:18

Well, uh I'm really remembering one time that you said um we don't want to we maybe not be ready to sacrifice what we know we need to in order to reach our best selves. Yeah.

Speaker 49:41

Yeah, it's easy to replace that longing with something else. Sure.

Speaker 3 49:45

I mean anything, anything and these days, good Lord, yeah, just be distracted on your phone all day. Right. How can everyday people create you're a leader, you're a giant.

Mutual Relationships And Final Invites

Speaker 3 50:00

Not everybody is a leader and a giant. So let's say we are on a smaller scale, like in our little corner of the world, how can we create meaningful connection with others?

Speaker 50:15

Yeah. I I really um I I think what I uh want, how do I want to respond to that first is that all of us have that need for basic connection. Some of the more relationally impoverished people I know are leaders, and they're very gifted. Um but lonely. But lonely. Oh, yes. Yes, and so it all begins with um with just being present with people and uh finding someone who is present with you. I read not too long ago that joy means being with uh having someone who is glad to be with me. Just think about that. Finding people who you are glad to be with, and they are glad to be with you.

Speaker 3 51:17

That sounds so simple.

Speaker 51:19

It does, but isn't it so true?

Speaker 3 51:23

Yes, that is true.

Speaker 51:25

It is so true. Now, it is it is a larger value, but um I think that's where it starts. It's like, do I like being with these people? You know, I mean, can can I find one person who I would be glad to be with? And that's a mindset because a lot of times our relationships are beyond family, and our family relationships, by the way, they're often inadequate to meet all of our needs. I mean, yeah, your spouse can't take care of every need that you have.

Speaker 3 52:01

No, they're human just like me.

Speaker 52:02

And family often they do not tell you all the truth.

Speaker 3 52:06

100%. Exactly.

Speaker 52:08

Okay. And so we have to have people that we have face-to-face relationships with. Diversified. Yes. And we have to be in community multigenerationally. Oh, yes. Because we we need we don't know everything. We don't know everything.

Speaker 3 52:25

And vice versa. Like vice versa. Yeah, I need aunties and they need me.

Speaker 52:30

Yes.

Speaker 3 52:30

And it just some of those are some of my favorite relationships with my aunts. I mean, they're so that's so fun. Yes. You know, they think I'm ridiculous and in a great way, you know, they're like, oh, and they just I would say to I have found this in my life lately, just a realization. And I'm sure there are a lot of people out there for people who hold emotional space for other people. I won't put myself in the same category as you because mine is one-on-one. Yours is thousands of people at a time. But it does get lonely. And don't think the listener, I'm mostly talking to myself here, okay? So don't think you're exempt from needing connection because you give so much connection. Yes. It's a different part of who you are. When you're holding space for somebody and connecting, you're connecting and it's authentic and it's deep and it's beautiful. Yes. But you're holding space for someone else, and that is not the same thing as someone connecting with you.

Speaker 53:42

That's exactly right. And that's why we all need um mutually supportive relationships where we can be broken, where we can uh share our stories, and those that uh we cherish patiently listen listen. A place where we don't have to be a human doing, but a human being. And um, and so you know, I have relationships with other pastors, and I get to get to do that. So glad. Right. And uh I've got some friends in our church that I get to do that with. Only a couple, but special. Yeah, and uh and they like Galen. Yes, you know.

Speaker 3 54:27

Who likes the cowboys?

Speaker 54:29

Yes, the cowboys. This is this is I have to do something. That's that is uh like some emotional maintenance there too, right?

Speaker 3 54:41

You have to be faithful to be a cowboy fan.

Speaker 54:44

Have to be.

Speaker 3 54:45

Oh, PC, thank you so much for being here. Where can people found find Greater Mount Zion?

Speaker 54:52

Well, we are at gmzaustin.org. You can connect with us there. Um if you appreciate apps, you can uh go to your app store. We have a great app where we have sermons and um lessons and um just a host of things for everybody. And um we l we are in um in Austin at 4301 Tannehill Lane in East Austin, and um and you can look us up there. Uh we have uh services every Sunday at 9 45 and 12 p.m. And um and we would just love to see everybody.

Speaker 3 55:33

Listener, if you can swing it, there isn't a church I recommend more highly. They will love you and welcome you and take care of you, and you will feel God and the Holy Spirit, and you will leave uplifted and feeling connected and in community. Thank you so much, BC.

Speaker 55:54

Great joy. I'm honored to be here.

Speaker 3 55:56

Oh my god, the honor. I'm truly humbled that that you're here, and I appreciate you so much, and I love you very much.

Speaker 56:02

Love you too, my friend.

Speaker 3 56:04

Listener, until next time, take good care of yourselves. See you guys next week. Thank you for spending this time with me. If something from today's conversation resonated, or if you're in a season where support would help, visit me at gattheahhollam.com. That's C-A-T-I-A-H-O-L-M.com. You can also leave an anonymous question for the show by calling or texting 956-249-7930. I'd love to hear what's on your heart. If Couch Time with Cat has been meaningful to you, it would mean so much if you'd subscribe, rate, and leave a review. It helps others find us and it grows this community of care. And if you know someone who needs a little light right now, send them this episode. Remind them they're not alone. Until next time, be gentle with yourself. Keep showing up and know I'm right here with you.