Organizing and Emotions with Erin Mursch

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On today's show we discuss how clutter can be a nervous system signal, not a moral failure, and our homes often mirror anxiety, grief, ADHD, burnout, and the weight of too many unmade decisions. We talk with professional organizer Erin Mursh about making space outside so we can feel more space inside, using compassion and function instead of shame and perfectionism. 

• clutter as communication between environment and emotional health 
• decision fatigue and why rooms become “Mount Everest” 
• anxiety showing up as perfectionism and hidden shame spaces 
• ADHD, executive functioning challenges, and making tidying easier 
• guilt, gratitude, and the sunk cost trap with unused items 
• grief and sentimental belongings, including choosing one meaningful keepsake 
• couples conflict and household stress, including how clutter can raise cortisol 
• shifting the question from “make it nice” to “what do I need from this space?” 
• a compassionate starting point, beginning with the least emotional area 
• what working with a professional organizer looks like in real life 
• Erin’s path from organizing into graduate school for counseling 

Show Guest:

Erin Mursch is a professional organizer and owner of Organized for Good in Austin, TX. She has been using her organizing skills to support individuals, couples, and families for more than 10 years, training with Marie Kondo to become a Certified KonMari Consultant in 2016. Through her work in clients' homes, Erin has observed firsthand the overlap between our home environment and our mental health, which has led her back to school to get a Masters in Professional Counseling. 

You can connect with Erin at Organized for Good on the web and on Instagram.

Transcript

Welcome To Couch Time

Speaker 0:00

Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for real conversation and a gentle check-in. KWVH presents Couch Time with Cat.

Speaker 2 0:10

Hi friends, and welcome to Couch Time with Cat, Mental Wellness with a Friendly Voice. I'm Cat, therapist bestselling author, TEDx speaker, and endurance athlete. But most of all, I'm a wife, mama, and someone who deeply believes that people are good and healing is possible. Here in the Hill Country of Wimberley, Texas, I've built my life and practice around one purpose to make mental wellness feel accessible, compassionate, and real. This show is for those moments when life feels heavy, when you're craving clarity, or when you just need to hear, you're not alone. Each week we'll explore the terrain of mental wellness through stories, reflections, research, and tools you can bring into everyday life. Think of it as a conversation between friends, rooted in science, guided by heart, and grounded in the belief that healing does not have to feel clinical. It can feel like sitting on a couch with someone who gets it. So whether you're driving, walking, cooking, or simply catching your breath, you're welcome here. This is your space to feel seen, supported, and reminded of your own strength. I'm so glad you're here. Let's dive

When Clutter Feels Like Stress

Speaker 2 1:21

in. What if the pile of laundry on the chair, the unopened mail, the garage you avoid walking into isn't really about laziness at all? What if clutter is sometimes grief or anxiety or burnout or simply the nervous system asking for help? Today on Couch Time with Cat, we're talking about the emotional life of our homes and why creating space around us can sometimes create space inside us as well. There's a moment many of us know intimately. We walk into our home after a long day, we're already tired and we're already caring too much. And before we even put our keys down, our nervous system starts reacting. There's dirty dishes, there's shoes all over the floor, there are stacks of paper that maybe you meant to deal with three weeks ago. The closet you don't open anymore because it feels overwhelming. And suddenly your home doesn't feel like a place to land. It feels like another thing that is asking something from you. A lot of us quietly carry shame around this. We tell ourselves we should be more organized, more disciplined, more together. But what if our homes are actually speaking a language? What if clutter is sometimes communication? Because our external environment and our internal emotional world are deeply connected. And today's guests have spent over a decade witnessing that connection unfold in real people's lives, not from a place of judgment, but from curiosity, compassion, and care. You're listening to Couch Time with

Meet Professional Organizer Erin Marsh

Speaker 2 3:04

Cat. I'm Cat, and today we're talking about the overlap between clutter, home environments, and mental health with professional organizer and future therapist Aaron Mersh. And honestly, this conversation really isn't about stuff. It's about identity, capacity, grief, ADHD, relationships, and perfectionism. The invisible labor so many of us carry, and the quiet longing so many of us have to feel safe and peaceful in our own homes again. So whether you're listening while you're folding laundry, driving through the hill country, or staring at your junk drawer, welcome. You're in the right place. Today's guest is Aaron Marsh, a professional organizer and owner of Organized for Good in Austin, Texas. Erin has spent more than 10 years helping individuals, couples, and families create spaces that support and not sabotage their well-being. She trained with Marie Condo and became a certified Con Marie consultant in 2016. But what makes Aaron's work so unique is that she quickly recognized organizing was never just about bins and labels. Through years of working inside people's homes, she began noticing powerful patterns between clutter and emotional health. Patterns connected to anxiety, ADHD, depression, trauma, grief, burnout, and even relationship dynamics. That curiosity led her back to school to pursue a master's in professional counseling, deepening her understanding of the emotional stories our environments can hold. Hi, Erin. Hi, Cat.

Speaker 4:50

Thank you for that beautiful introduction.

Speaker 2 4:52

I'm so, so glad you're here. Listener, it is a small world. I asked Erin to be a guest on the show. And um we met through we met.

Speaker 5:03

I was You were a guest speaker in my class. I was for current issues in marriage and couples.

Speaker 2 5:09

Honestly, I was gonna try to make it cooler. I was gonna be like through a mutual friend.

Speaker 5:12

Oh, sorry. Tim scratched that from the record.

Speaker 2 5:16

No, no, no. We'll keep it all in. We'll keep it all in. I was trying to find a way to like blend it all, but yes, I was a guest speaker in your class and with Dr. Flash, who has been a guest on the show before. Yeah, she's great. And listener, as Erin and I were talking, we realized I know her sister. Oh my God. I said, Oh my God, thank you for driving all this way. And she said, Well, my sister lives here. And listener, it's always a small world, you know? Oh my gosh. I love it. So it's like I was already excited for you to come, and now I'm like, ooh, it's even more exciting. Okay. Let's start

A Quarter Life Crisis Sparked A Career

Speaker 2 5:52

at the beginning. Okay. How did you get started in professional organizing?

Speaker 5:56

Well, it started with a quarter life crisis of my own. Um, no, seriously though. Um, my my father had passed away, and I was working kind of like a corporate nine to five job, and I just felt like, why? What are we doing this all for? Like, I, you know, I don't want to be in a cubicle. I want to be living my life. I want to create my own schedule. I want, you know, so it started with that idea, and then I was just kind of opening up to the universe and thinking, like, what am I meant to do? And um I met a woman who was like, oh, I'm a professional organizer. This is before all of the like Netflix shows and like the books and everything came out. And I was like, oh my God, professional organizer. Uh, I want to do that. I I love organizing. It's the way I like kind of process my own anxiety is like kind of clearing the clutter and and figuring things out. And so she kind of mentored me for a couple of years, and then I was like, Yes, I I was also teaching Spanish. I was doing lots of other things in life. But um yeah, I really loved it. I loved that every project was different, every space was different. I was working with different types of clients and and um really felt like I was making a difference and like seeing it was a very it is a very rewarding thing to like see the results right away of like a project, of a space, of a whatever. Um, so I decided to go out on my own and started organize for good in 2016. And as I was like telling people in my life, like this is what I'm doing now, they're like, oh, is it kind of like that Japanese lady, Marie Kondo? And I was like, I need to read her book. So I finally picked up her book and read it and was like, oh my gosh, like her approach, the depth of it, the mindfulness of it, um, kind of how it speaks to your belongings being tied to your identity and your lifestyle and all of these things in a deeper way beyond like, let's make your pantry look pretty, or let's make, you know, let's color code your books or whatever. Um, so I joined her mailing list, and then like the first email that I got was like, we're starting a consultancy program. So I attended her very first training. I flew up to New York, I met her, and she um she started the certification program. And so that kind of like gave me, you know, more of a specific approach and differentiated me from the very few other organizers that were around in Austin at the time. And so that's kind of how I got started. But it yeah, it did start with a quarter life crisis. I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? This doesn't feel like it.

Speaker 2 8:46

I love the way you just followed the breadcrumbs. Yeah, like here's this and here's this, and I'm just gonna keep following it.

Speaker 8:54

Yeah. I did not fully have a plan. I was just kind of exploring and seeing what felt like a good fit. And it kind of, it really did feel like a good fit. And the deeper I got, the more I loved it.

When Organizing Turns Into Grief Work

Speaker 2 9:08

When did you first realize that professional organizing had a deeper emotional layer?

Speaker 9:16

I mean, I think from the very beginning, actually, because one of the first clients I worked with um as I was doing my like Conmari training, because I had to get a certain number of hours in order to become certified, one of my first clients um had just lost her husband from the same form of brain cancer that killed my father. Oh my gosh. And so it was like I felt this deep connection to her, and it was a it's a rare form of cancer, and I felt this deep connection to her and such empathy for her. She had two kids, and she was like, you know, trying to get the the office in order and, you know, create a sense of like stability and new normal for her kids, and also like kind of reclaim her space, get the medical supplies out. I mean, it was it was deep from the very, very beginning. It was grief, and it was like this is a life transition, and this is like a moment where she really needs support kind of getting a reset. So it was like very early. But there have been lots of other I could tell you so many stories of examples of like, wow, this isn't just like making a space pretty or more functional, although that's definitely part of it. Um, there's some like deep, deep stuff in this work, and it's very therapeutic for

Decision Fatigue And Outside Help

Speaker 10:38

sure.

Speaker 2 10:38

I have never hired a professional organizer, but um something happened recently where I I mean I don't know, it's not like a specific event, but there's this young lady and she's been our babysitter and now she's in college and she just calls me every time she's in town and she says, Hey, do you need any help? I say, Yeah, great. And she helps me organize areas in my house that I mentally it may as well be Mount Everest. Just like a pile of random socks. Or to she's coming over today to help me with my laundry room.

Speaker 11:15

I love it.

Speaker 2 11:15

And I told her she's like, sure, what do you what do you want to do? And I said, Decisions need to be made. Like, this is what I need help with. I can make 8,000 decisions, but I walk into my laundry room and I think there's like a block. Oh my god, like how do you what? What? Where am I putting this shelf and where am I putting this can of cleaner? And where am I putting it's just that small laundry room is full of like a hundred decisions that at the end of the day, I'm just like, close the door, like wait for Regan to come. But also, since she doesn't have the emotional attachment, she can help me get rid of kids' artwork or toys that we're given in good like from a good intention, but ended up just cluttering our space. God bless you. If you're out there and you're giving kids things that require a lot of instructions, they're not gonna do it. They're not gonna do it. Maybe I'm just speaking for my kids. No, but I'm like, if it needs parental supervision plus instructions, I'm sorry, I'm gonna end up giving it away or tossing it, but I can't until Regan gets there.

Speaker 12:29

Yeah. Yep. So you're speaking to a number of things. It's like first you need the objectivity of a different person who doesn't live in your space and doesn't have the emotional attachments to these things, so they can make more analytical decisions rather than emotional decisions. So that's one piece of it. The other piece of it is like when something becomes like Everest, like that, it's so overwhelming. The number of decisions you have to make, you will delay that project forever. And you'll every time you walk into that space, you'll feel it. You'll feel the weight of all of these unmade decisions. So it's bringing someone in to provide that kind of accountability. It's like, it's like for people who know that they can go to the gym, they have a gym membership, they can work out anytime. But if they don't have an appointment with a personal trainer, they're not gonna go as hard. They're not, you know, they're not gonna have goals, they're just gonna be like messing around on machines, or maybe they won't even go at all. So there's that accountability piece to it. And then I lost my train of thought on the third thing, but like that is so true. It's just like bring in someone else with that outside just to get it done and get it off of your plate so that you don't feel that emotional weight every time you walk into your laundry room. And you can just go in and do the thing you need to do in that space without all of the shame, shame, guilt, the the kind of flagellating yourself for not having taken care of it, the like yeah, shame and blame. It's getting icky. It's icky.

Speaker 2 13:55

So many of people so many people assume that the clutter means laziness or lack of discipline, and that's kind of what we're speaking to, that there's a lot more involved in it. How do you think we get uh started accumulating these unmade decisions? Does it start with one? Do you think it's a pile of decisions all at one time? Do you think it's just the time in a person's life where maybe one day they can deal with 50 unmatched socks and some days they can't? What do you think about that?

Speaker 14:29

Yeah, I think it depends. I think sometimes it there can be this like snowball effect where if like one little piece of clutter is living on this part of your counter, like it won't kind of be a magnet and attract like other stuff. Um, and then it's like you just you are just kind of delaying that decision. Like this one little Lego or this little, you know, party favor that came in a bag last week, or this, you know, coins or something your kid made, the rock they painted, like whatever it is, it just starts to accumulate and then it like grows and grows. And then it becomes like, okay, this was one decision, and now it's like 40 things that I have to deal with. Um, and I think different times of life, totally true. Sometimes we are very busy and that just cannot be our priority, and that's okay. There's no shame in that. Um, and other times it's just like it kind of drains your energy just to even see it or think about it. So sometimes people just kind of snap and then throw it all away, and then they feel bad about having done that because now the kid is missing that one Lego piece to the set or whatever, and it's just like, oh god. Um so yeah, I think you know, in an ideal world, we would deal with these things like more regularly, but like we live so far from an ideal world that you can just kind of let some things go and and not beat yourself up about

Anxiety And ADHD In Our Stuff

Speaker 15:49

it.

Speaker 2 15:49

How do you think things like anxiety, ADHD, grief, depression, how do those physically show up in someone's environment?

Speaker 16:00

Can we take them one at a time? Because that's a lot.

Speaker 2 16:02

Okay, so most definitely that would be the best approach. Okay, so with anxiety.

Speaker 16:07

Anxiety. What I see with anxiety, a couple of things. Anxiety often can present as perfectionism. So I think those go hand in hand. And I think you want to present as if everything is perfect a lot of times if you've got a high anxiety. And so what that looks like is maybe your living room looks like a magazine spread. It is gorgeous, but then there's this like hall closet or a junk drawer or a garage that is hiding all of the shame, right? And that is that can definitely be anxiety.

Speaker 2 16:48

I just gulped so big because my garage is disgusting.

Speaker 16:52

It can be, yeah. Golly. Or there's like a spare bedroom that's just like the landing spot for like all it just collects all of the detritus from the rest of the house. What's that word? Detritus, just like the flotsman jetsum, just like the stuff.

Speaker 2 17:09

You said you said another word that I don't know to describe the first word that I didn't know.

Speaker 17:14

Flotsman jetsum. Okay, first of all, that that is a reference from the little mermaid. That's how I learned those words, but it's stuff floating in water that's just like you don't know what this is. It's just stuff.

Speaker 2 17:24

How old are you, Erin?

Speaker 17:25

I'm 40.

Speaker 2 17:26

Okay, I'm 42, gonna be 43. Okay, so like we're the same age in terms of little mermaid.

Speaker 17:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2 17:32

She was my life, yes.

Speaker 17:33

Oh, she was my life.

Speaker 2 17:34

Okay, okay, cool.

Speaker 17:35

Oh my god, look at this stuff. Isn't it neat? Like, that is a hoarder.

Speaker 2 17:38

Wouldn't you think?

Speaker 17:39

She was a hoarder. No judgment. It happens. Okay, so back to anxiety.

Speaker 2 17:44

It's a true therapist. She was like, she caught her judgment in the air and she lassoed it back in. Okay, so anxiety.

Speaker 17:54

Okay, so another thing that can happen with anxiety is you're like constantly like worrying or planning about the future. So you there's a squirrel out the window that's like doing an army crawl. And sorry.

Speaker 1 18:08

Uh onto ADHD. Onto ADHD.

Speaker 18:13

How does ADHD present? Um, okay. Anxiety, planning for the future. Okay, so you're like, you might have a hard time letting go of things because what if I need this in the future? You know, there's that fear of what if. So that can also lead to keeping more than you really need. Um, and then the clutter builds, and then what do we do with all of this stuff? And then you're like, do you really need 87 bottles of lotion? No. Most of them are probably expired.

Speaker 2 18:48

It feels my hardest thing in letting go of things is I feel ungrateful.

Speaker 3 18:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:56

Like that's the primary emotion. I feel like, how dare I put this in a landfill or hand this work off to someone else because there are people with not enough, and I have too many fill in the blank.

Speaker 19:16

So that's another aspect of the work that I do is I really try to identify where these things can be useful and take the stuff where it can be most useful. It's really not serving anyone by having 87 bottles of lotion in your cabinet, and it doesn't make you a better person for like keeping it. The waste has already happened when you purchased those 87. You know what I mean? Like that has already it's a sunk cost. That's an that's another great like the business side of things. Like the sunk cost idea is like the waste has already happened. You keeping it in your cabinet is not gonna serve it. You know, if you had, you know, four bottles of lotion, I would say, don't buy any more lotion until you use all of this. So use it up. And then, yes, of course, be grateful. And that's a big part of the Konmari method is like expressing your gratitude when you're letting things go. Like to your socks that like are too tight on your feet. You're like, Thank you, socks. You did your best. It's not your fault they're too tight on my feet. Like, where can I, you know, hand these socks to someone who is in need of socks?

Speaker 2 20:22

Should we move on to the next one?

Grief And Letting Go Gently

Speaker 2 20:24

Yes. What about grief?

Speaker 20:25

Grief. Okay, so grief is a tough one because as we know, it comes in waves. There's not like an end point to grief. Um, but I'd say when when someone's in a really like fresh state of grief, it might not be the time to like go through your loved one's belongings. Maybe you need a little bit of space and a little bit of distance from losing that loved one before you're able to really go through and let go. Um, another thing I I would say, you know, when going through sentimental items, people have a hard time letting go because it feels like part of them. It's the, you know, it's an experience, it's someone they care about, or whatever the case may be. And I would say put those things together. So for example, let's say I'm working with a divorcee and she has all of this like wedding memorabilia. Like, let's go through it together. Like, you've got the dress, you've got the photo album, you've got the candles, you've got the cocktail napkins and the invitations. Like, she's got a lot of stuff that all represent this marriage. Like, what can we eliminate? You know, like keep the thing that feels most precious and most special and really encapsulates that memory for you and let the rest go because you don't need, you know, 28 items.

Speaker 2 21:47

A cocktail napkin.

Speaker 21:49

A cocktail napkin. You don't need that to remember the marriage, you know. Right. And you can express your gratitude to the cocktail napkin and like it was fun to design it. And choose the colors, and you know, people used them at your wedding, but like you don't need them.

Speaker 2 22:05

Right. Oh, I mean, I can feel the objectivity from you, which feels like a relief. And then as you're telling the story, I'm putting myself in the shoes of the lady who's not easy. Looking at the cocktail napkin, and I'm like, oh, you know, I imagine that sting.

Clutter Conflict In Couples And Families

Speaker 2 22:25

Okay. So you've worked with couples and families. How do homes often become the battleground for emotional needs that maybe haven't been spoken out loud, maybe between people? Do you see that? Yes. Okay, tell us about it.

Speaker 22:39

Well, just in terms of like, let's say couples, they can have very different ideas of what it means to have a tidy home or um what an appropriate amount of stuff is for a home, and that can create a lot of conflict. So sometimes I come in and I can kind of mediate that process, like, you know, how many knives do we need? You know, who's the primary cook? Or if you both cook, like what are the knives that you prefer? What are the knives that you prefer? And like, can we eliminate the ones that like nobody really prefers? Just so we can simplify the knife block situation or the drawer, whatever the case may be. Um, it can be the same in a closet. Like I can work with a couple, and one of them is like super type A and one of them is very type B. And you're like, okay, how can we sort this out and come to a compromise and learn to accept our differences? Because that's a lot of a couple's work is it's like this person is different and they're not seeing things from my point of view, and I'm not seeing things from their point of view. And at the end of the day, can we like bring it back to like let's let's try to accept each other and love each other for those differences and laugh about them rather than like try to change the other person?

Speaker 2 23:57

I am making not a great face, I don't think. But you're a hundred percent right. And I don't think I've done a very good job of that. I think my husband has done a better job in our relationship.

Speaker 24:10

Job of what?

Speaker 2 24:11

Accepting the other person. Yeah. I feel accepted, honey. Thank you so much. You've done a great job. I really enjoy a very tidy space. It doesn't have to be perfect. There can be stacks, but in general, I want things to go where they belong.

Speaker 24:34

I do too. And I want to normalize this. This is this is happens all the time. And I will say, especially in heterosexual couples, the the woman and the couple will generally there have been re there has actually been research that shows that women's cortisol level rises in cluttered spaces and the men's stick level stays stable. They just do not respond in the same way to a cluttered environment. Like they don't see it, they don't notice it, they are not affected by it as much. And there, of course, are exceptions. Like I said, there can be type A men that have very strong opinions and I've worked with those type of clients as well. But I think on the whole, it is a pattern that I've seen that the women are more affected and their stress levels really increase. And I'm the same way. If I walk into the house and there's stuff on the dining room table, right when I walk in, I'm like, what's happening here? Like, why do I have to do this? You know, I think. Where are my people? Help me.

Speaker 2 25:41

Yeah, I scan. Sometimes I get on these in Spanish. The word, you know, this probably now I just learned Aaron is also a Spanish teacher. So um, but the word is onda. Like I get on an onda, which means I get on a kick. Yeah. So one day I will look around and I'll just see projects halfway done. And I just scan the horizon for halfway done. And I think, oh, that's halfway done, that's halfway done. This needs completed, this needs completed. So that's what a pile means to me. It means this is halfway done.

Speaker 26:17

This is a task for you. This is on your list.

Speaker 2 26:21

For someone else to finish. Yes. So men's cortisol doesn't really react that way.

Speaker 26:28

Right.

Speaker 2 26:29

Amazing.

Speaker 26:30

The other thing I wanted to bring it back to in terms of relationships in the household, it can also be a parent-child

Executive Function And Making Chores Work

Speaker 26:35

dynamic. Say there's a child with ADHD, and a parent just doesn't understand this neurodivergence and how it like why the child cannot clean their room or why they cannot, you know, put their stuff away. Um, and I think it's really important to start to understand the executive functioning challenges and how we can support that child, you know, and simplify their space to where tidying up is not such an overwhelming task.

Speaker 2 27:09

Can you speak to executive functioning a little bit?

Speaker 27:12

Yeah, basically, um for somebody who with ADHD, it can be like their their executive, their boss inside their brain, the taskmaster, is challenged. They cannot force the per the person to do what even they want to do or what they're supposed to do. They can get easily distracted, they can have kind of a resistance to whatever the task is, which makes, you know, maybe they can start something, but completing it is very difficult. Um, and so if you can bring joy to the process, that can really help because the special power of ADHD is like a hyper focus ability. If they're really engaged and they're really into something, they can do it for a very long time. So if you can find a way to gamify or like make um tidying up fun or like decluttering fun, then it can absolutely turn around and like be totally doable.

Speaker 2 28:17

Listener, I have ADHD or I have ADD, not ADHD. And um to do my chores, I have to put earbuds in my ears and turn the music up real loud. And then I can just go.

Speaker 28:33

You make it a party.

Speaker 2 28:34

I do. And my brain can focus on the music and then my hands can do whatever they need to do. But if I have no music, it feels like torture. I'm like, what is happening? Why is this so hard?

Speaker 28:48

What's going on in your brain? I'm curious if there's no music, is it narrating what you're doing? Is it getting distracted by thoughts?

Speaker 2 28:56

I've never, it's too uncomfortable for me to think about, for me to actually assess. I think it's that it feels so mundane and I hate mundane. Um, mundane is like, oh, kill me now. Oh my God. I hate going to sleep.

unknown 29:17

What?

Speaker 2 29:17

I I love going to sleep so much. Abhor going to sleep. What? It's so boring. Okay. I need to be stimulated. Yeah. Um yeah. If there were a way to crash into sleep, I would do it every night. Like, so I used to work out really late at night so that I could, like, I'd start running 10 miles at 9 p.m.

Speaker 29:44

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 29:45

So that I could just land in exhaustion and go to bed. But if these people I really envy the people who are like, I write in my journal, I think beautiful thoughts. I'm like, oh no. Yeah. I laid down last night at a normal human hour and I thought, this is so boring.

Speaker 30:07

I like to do body scans and just like check in with the sensations like in my entire body. I'm like, yeah, my right shoulder hurts a little bit. Really? And I just like kind of do that until I fall asleep.

Speaker 2 30:17

That sounds like torture, Erin. Okay. I'm gonna pause and let's invite, listener. I want to invite you right now to let's all take a deep breath, even though it's boring. Exhale. Okay. And ask yourself is there a space in your home that feels emotionally heavy to you right now? I have spilled my guts today. You guys already know I have a messy garage. This isn't surprising. Every time I post a workout selfie behind me is just years of unmade decisions. So you guys know that. But um, I don't want you to feel wrong or embarrassed or heavy. You know, uh the reason I'm so forthcoming is because I want to normalize all these things. Or there isn't somebody out there who's just walking around and got it figured out a hundred percent of the time. So instead of asking yourself or some what's wrong with me or being critical, I want to encourage you to ask yourself the question, what might your space be trying to tell you? Or what story is your space telling you right now? Or even why is this space so scary? Why is this space so scary? As you all know, I've heard said a thousand times on the show that awareness is the beginning. I don't want you to ever judge yourself or criticize yourself. I just want to encourage you to be aware.

Supportive Organization Versus Perfectionism

Speaker 2 31:50

Okay, Erin, what's the difference between supportive organization and perfectionism disguised as organization? Is there a thing like that? Do some people say, I just really love to be organized, but really the undertone of that is I need everything to be perfect?

Speaker 32:09

Yeah, I mean, I've seen that before, but I don't know how to answer the question. Supportive organization, I I guess would be like how can I make my space more functional, more aligned with my lifestyle, with my family? Um how can I have my space support me and what we need from it? Right. So that makes makes sense. I think perfectionism is not accepting the messy parts of life and you know, wanting everything to be perfectly, you know, uniform, all of the canisters turned just so. I mean it converge on a level of OCD, I imagine, if we're talking about the um the aesthetics, yeah, just hyperfixation on how it looks rather than how it functions and supports you. And I think I wonder, I actually haven't put words to this before, so I don't know how it will come out, but I wonder if it's about kind of seeing yourself from the outside versus looking out, you know, like if perfectionism is about being being seen a certain way and um even if it's yourself, like seeing yourself a certain way rather than looking outward from your own lens and imagining like how something will support you.

Speaker 2 33:50

Being in the experience versus being perceived.

Speaker 33:54

Yes, that's a good way to phrase it.

Speaker 2 33:56

So you just said something that I think is gonna change my life. So thank you. Oh you said, what do you need from the space? Mm-hmm.

unknown 34:06

What?

Speaker 2 34:06

I've never thought about that. I bet you have. I really haven't. I really haven't thought what do I need from the space? I usually think, how do I make this space nice? I don't ever think of I'm j I'm thinking of a we call it the creative area in our house because my husband, oh honey, he is dead set on not having a breakfast table and a dining room table. Okay, he is like that is gluttonous.

unknown 34:42

Okay.

Speaker 2 34:44

So we don't okay. We don't have a breakfast table. We have a creative area table. We play games on it, and we also eat breakfast on it, but it's not a breakfast table. That's the first time I've said that in public. Um so I'm thinking of that space in our house, and our kids are 11 and 9. We play a ton of family games, and they're pretty crafty. So they do a lot of arts and crafts on the table. But I've never really thought how how can I create this space so it gives us what we need versus here's a footprint of a room and how do I make it nice?

Speaker 35:35

Yeah. Does that make sense? It does. I see when I work with clients who like move into like a new build, maybe it was like a spec house or something like that. Sometimes it is so clear when a space was built just to be sold, you know, the the beauty of it without thinking about the functionality of a space. So like there's no storage, like thoughtful storage, or, you know, why is there no long hanging space in the closet? Oh, a man designed this closet. You know what I mean? So it's like things like that, where I'm just like, I wish they were more thoughtful about how they designed this home because now, like, they've already moved in. Now we're just trying to figure it out and like add it after the fact. Um, where it's like, if you can start from the beginning really thinking like, what will this space be used for? And like, how can we make it work better for the people living in it? It's so obvious when you see a home that was designed that way with that intention.

Speaker 2 36:38

Wow.

A Compassionate Place To Start

Speaker 2 36:39

Erin, could you walk us through a compassionate starting point? So maybe the listener is thinking, okay, I have this space. It's scary. I now know that there are a lot of unmade decisions. Where does one begin?

Speaker 36:56

I would start at the least emotionally heavy space. So maybe that's like the junk drawer where there's like soy sauce packets and dead batteries and you know, keys that you don't know what they go to and things like that. I would take everything out of that drawer and sort it into your categories and give yourself permission to let go of the things that are not serving you. And I would invite you to rename that drawer, not the junk drawer, but the utility drawer, and only keep things in that drawer that serve a utility, that will be functional and helpful for you. That's a good starting point. And then I would work your way, like it's build it like a muscle. Work your way through your spaces, through your cabinets and drawers with that same mindset. It's like, is this serving me? Do I love it? Do I use it? Do I want it in my life? And is this the most sensible place to keep it? I think those are questions that can help you get organized.

Speaker 2 37:58

Those are great, great questions.

What Hiring An Organizer Looks Like

Speaker 2 38:01

Can I ask you a little bit about your business? Sure. Okay, so when someone hires you, does it take you, do they hire you per room, per project, per how does that, what does that look like?

Speaker 38:13

I've tried it so many different ways. I've um, you know, bundled hours together and had packages and things like that. And I find what works best is to have book a session at a time. So I have a three-hour minimum session, and that's basically like a half day, or you could book a full day, six hours, um, depending on the scope of the project. So I always start with like a phone consultation. Sometimes sometimes for a bigger project, I'll do an in-person consultation to get my eyes on it and be like, okay, what are we really looking at? What is the scope of the work? And then we can book a session. And what a client could expect in that first session is we will identify the scope of what we're working on. Are we doing, you know, an entry closet? Are we doing a primary closet? Are we doing a playroom? You know, like what is the scope of what we're working on? Um, and we'll dive in by taking things out, just like the junk drawer. We'll use that same example and apply it to a bigger space. So if we're doing a primary closet, we'll take like all of the shirts out and we'll go through the shirts and you can identify like, does it still fit? Do I love it? Blah, blah, blah. You can do the decluttering. I'm not there to make the decisions for you, but I'll offer guiding questions to help you arrive at like what you truly want and need to keep. And then we'll reset the structure of the space. So we go through tops first, then we'll do, you know, bottoms, we'll do dresses, we'll do jackets, yada, yada, yada. And eliminate all of the excess, reset the structure of the space, identify, okay, would some extra shoe shelves be helpful here? Do you want to get uniform hangers? Do you want to get new baskets for the top or whatever the case may be? Identify if there are some storage products that can maximize or beautify or you know meet your needs better. Um, and then I can either put together a little shopping list for you, or we can schedule a follow-up and I'll do the shopping and bring it back, and we can like finalize it, add the labels, do all the stuff.

Speaker 2 40:14

Do you ever have to have hard conversations? Like, ma'am, you don't need XYZ, or do they really have to come to that conclusion themselves?

Speaker 40:27

I think it's I don't okay. Yes, we do have hard conversations, but I really kind of phrase it in terms of questions. Like, do you wear all 18 pairs of black leggings? Do you want to go through and have a look at the condition and make sure that like you're keeping the best of the best that you're really gonna wear? Yeah, I do ask questions like that, and I don't mean it to be like mocking. Yeah, no, I really don't. And I do like it when people laugh at themselves because that means I see them. They know that I see them, you know, and I think sometimes just being witnessed in that way, they're like, okay, that is kind of ridiculous. I don't need 18 pairs of black leggings. Like, I do my laundry every week, so I maybe need five tops, right? Tops. Yeah.

Speaker 2 41:22

How many pairs of black leggings do you own?

Speaker 41:25

Two. I have a cropped pair and a full-length pair.

Speaker 2 41:29

Would you call yourself a minimalist? Ish.

Speaker 41:34

Ish. I would say ish. Yeah. We live in a very small home, so the like scale of our storage is small. Um, so that automatically like limits what I can keep. But then also I like rotate things pretty frequently. I donate, I like to thrift. Like, you know what I mean? Like I things come in and things go, and I'm not precious about very many things at all.

Why Erin Goes Back To School

Speaker 2 42:02

Can we kind of land the plane on your therapy journey? Sure. Okay. So you're a professional organizer. You decided I'm gonna go back and get a master's. You and I have this in common because we went back later in life. We look very young, but oh, thank you. I gave you and me a compliment at the same time.

Speaker 42:23

I don't disagree.

Speaker 2 42:26

So we went back later in life, so to speak. What has it been going back? What has it been like going back to graduate school?

Speaker 42:35

It's been really nice. I think um, you know, so I've been in this business for 10 years and I do have a couple of ladies that I work with that I love, but on the whole, I've been pretty isolated working for myself. So one of the things that I've really enjoyed about going back to school is kind of the community building around that. Um, also just like I I've always loved psychology. Like when you look at my bookshelves, and there's like so much self-help and psychology, like already there, that it's like I should have known sooner that this could have been a path. But um, but I think there's no time like the present, and I'm really loving it. It's been humbling at times to find out the ages of some of my classmates. I'm like, oh my God, like you were born when I was in high school. Like that's but also I think there's strength as a therapist to have like life wisdom, like life experience and some wisdom. Um, and I see that as like a benefit. I don't see it as like, oh no, like I'm so late to the game or you know, anything like that. I think you don't I'm not worried about it.

Speaker 2 43:42

Yeah, I'm glad that you feel like that. I felt like that too. I never thought, wow, I'm I never thought I'm old. What am I doing here? I never thought that. I was like, oh, I've been through some stuff and that's gonna pay off here.

Speaker 43:55

Yeah, definitely. I think I would feel different if I was like going to med school. something where I'm like, what am I doing here?

Speaker 2 44:03

Really? I don't think you would. I think you feel different maybe if you were like I don't know, something that's so typically youthful. But um no, I think experience is amazing. Yeah. I think it's I think it's so cool.

Where To Find Erin And Closing

Speaker 2 44:18

Okay, Aaron, where can listeners contact you? Where can they find you?

Speaker 44:22

Um my website organized for good atx.com. Um I'm also on Instagram at that same handle. Um I'm not as active on Instagram as I used to be, but you can still reach me there and like see some things. But yeah, go to my website. I've got a free phone consultation and a contact and all the things.

Speaker 2 44:45

Aaron, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. What a treat. Thank you. This has been so fun. It has been so, so fun. Listener, if this conversation supported you in some way, I'd love to stay connected with you. You can sign up for my weekly newsletter at gottheahum.com slash newsletter for gentle support, reflection, tools, and encouragement delivered straight to your inbox each week. And if you're enjoying the show, tag me, follow me at Couch Time with Cat on Instagram and Facebook. It really helps us grow this heart centered community. And I'd love to know what did you take away from today? What are you going to clean? Show me a picture of your utility drawer of a decision that you made of a win that you feel in your home and in your space and we would love to cheer you along. Until next time, take good care of yourself. Thank you for spending this time with me. If something from today's conversation resonated or if you're in a season where support would help, visit me at gatthehallum.com. That's C-A-T-I-A-H-O-L-M.com. You can also leave an anonymous question for the show by calling or texting 956-249-7930. I'd love to hear what's on your heart. If Couch Time with Cat has been meaningful to you, it would mean so much if you'd subscribe, rate, and leave a review. It helps others find us and it grows this community of care. And if you know someone who needs a little light right now, send them this episode. Remind them they're not alone. Until next time, be gentle with yourself, keep showing up and know I'm right here with you.