Invisible Loss and Grief with Roxanne Watson

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In today's episode, Invisible Loss and Grief with Roxanne Watson, we name the quiet grief that hides under a good life and talk about why burnout, numbness, and restlessness can be signs of unacknowledged loss. We sit down with Roxanne Watson to put language to invisible grief and share gentle ways to start healing without judging yourself.

• disenfranchised grief and why unsupported loss lingers
• invisible loss in motherhood, midlife, and the mental load
• marriage erosion as a real form of grief
• the imagined future that quietly becomes impossible
• how grief disguises itself as burnout, anxiety, or emotional flatness
• why naming a loss can feel scary and why it often brings relief
• first steps like journaling, silence, and talking to someone you trust
• meaning-making as a way to live with grief over time

Show Guest:

Roxanne Watson is a Licensed Professional Counselor based in Austin, Texas, specializing in grief, particularly the losses that go unacknowledged. She primarily works with women carrying what she calls invisible grief, such as the slow erosion of a marriage, the loss of identity within motherhood, and futures that quietly become impossible. She is the creator of The Invisible Loss, a clinical and public framework for the grief that lives beneath high-functioning lives, and the founder of @withroxannewatson on Instagram.

You can connect with Roxanne at: counselingaustin.com
and on Instagram: @withroxannewatson

Transcript

Welcome And A Strange Kind Of Grief

Speaker 0:00

Welcome to Couchdown with Cat, mental wellness with a friendly voice. I'm Cat, your friendly neighborhood marriage and family therapist, best-selling author, and TEDx speaker. But most of all, I'm a proud wife and mama, endurance athlete, and wholehearted coffee lover. And I'm truly delighted to be your host. Each week we gather for thoughtful conversations about relationships, resilience, healing, and yes, sometimes we laugh along the way. Let's begin. Have you ever felt grief for something you couldn't quite name? Not a death, not a diagnosis, just a quiet ape that lives underneath an otherwise good life. The marriage that's slowly drifting, the version of yourself that you lost somewhere in the laundry, in the lunch boxes, the future you were so sure you'd have. Today we're giving that grief a name. And once we name it, something will start to soften. Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, the place where we pull up a couch, kick off our shoes, and talk honestly about the messy, beautiful work of being in relationship and being human. I'm Cat and I'm so glad you're here. I want to start today with a feeling because I think you already know it, even if you've never had words for it. It's that evening heaviness that doesn't make sense. You have a family, you have a good job, you have the life you said that you wanted. And yet maybe there's this low hum of something's not right. Maybe sleep doesn't fix it, and maybe there's just like a slight dissatisfaction, or you can't quite tell something is off, and we're really good at explaining it away. I'm just burnt out, I need a vacation, I should be grateful. Sometimes it's hard to name things when we're so blessed because we have all these blessings around us, and we just think, yeah, but we have all these good things. But what if it's not burnout? What if it's grief? Grief that no one gave you a manual for, grief that doesn't come with instructions or maybe even language, but grief for the slow losses, the invisible ones, the ones that happen so gradually we don't notice. My guest today has spent her career sitting with exactly this. She calls it invisible loss. And the moment I heard that phrase, something in my chest kind of felt warm because it resonated. My guest today is Roxanne Watson. Roxanne is a licensed professional counselor at Roxanne Watson Therapy based in Austin, Texas. And she specializes in grief, but not just the grief we expect. She works with the losses that go unacknowledged. She primarily walks alongside women who are carrying what she so beautifully calls invisible grief. The slow erosion of a marriage, the loss of identity inside motherhood, the futures that quietly become impossible. She's the creator of the invisible loss, a framework for the grief that lives beneath high-functioning lives. You can find her over on Instagram at with Roxanne Watson. And here's why Roxanne is exactly the right person for this conversation. She doesn't just understand this intellectually. She has the rare gift of making people feel witnessed, of putting words to the thing that's been sitting wordless in your chest. And that's no small thing. That's medicine. Hi, Roxanne. Welcome. Hi, thank you. Really nice to be here. I'm so, so glad to have you.

Speaker 1 3:43

Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 3:44

Roxanne, have you done podcasts before?

Speaker 1 3:47

No. This is my inaugural podcast.

Speaker 3:51

This is so exciting. Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that.

Disenfranchised Grief And The Body

Speaker 3:57

Okay, listeners, before we before we bring Roxanne in, I want to ground us a little bit in the science and what the literature tells us. There's a term in psychology you may have heard, disenfranchise grief. It was once coined by a researcher named Kenneth Dokan. It describes grief that isn't socially recognized or supported. So the loss is real, but the world doesn't necessarily validate it. So we're kind of left mourning alone. And often we associate grief with something sad, but sometimes grief is just change. And here's what's wild. Our nervous system doesn't distinguish between doesn't distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable grief. It's just grief for us. And our bodies are grieving either way. So unprocessed loss doesn't disappear, it just gets stored. And we've talked about that so much on this show. And it shows up as exhaustion or irritability, or you become flat or gray. Researchers talk about the cost of emotional suppression. And the data is clear that what we don't feel, we tend to carry in the body. Everybody has heard of the book, The Body Keeps a Score. And by everybody, I mean therapists. I don't know if I don't know if Jen Pop is listening or reading The Body Keeps a Score, but it's out there. And culturally, we're living in a moment of this. We watched a whole generation of women hit a wall during the pandemic. We have language now, like high functioning depression. That was not a common term before, languishing trending across social media. There's this collective sense of I'm doing everything right and I still feel empty. And that's not a personal failing. That's often unnamed grief knocking at our door. Okay,

Meet Roxanne And Define Invisible Loss

Speaker 5:50

Roxanne, when you say invisible grief, what do you actually mean?

Speaker 1 5:55

Yeah. So what I started to notice um in myself and in my friends was this like restlessness. Um for context, I have three daughters. I have an eight-year-old and I have twins that are four years old. And a lot of my friends are in similar position with kids um around the same age who are also working and who do so much to keep their household running and keep so many people's lives running. But there's also this feeling of like sadness or anxiety or like how you know, how can I do everything I need to do? And when I started learning about um grief work as a therapist, I started kind of like making these connections that that was what at least I was experiencing. And then at the same time, I was looking around at so many other women who are in midlife with um a family, with uh, you know, like um hard-earned career, um taking care of their kids, often starting to think about taking care of their parents, taking care of their spouses, um, and this realization that, like, where am I in all of that? And that there are losses in every single one of those. For a mother who's taking care of her kids, there's often a sense of loss of wow, I thought my career was gonna be so much further along than it is right now. Or a lot of mothers will think to themselves, wow, I'm like really rocking it in my career, but I've lost a lot of like you know, coziness with my family. Um, and there's these losses that are happening, but since we don't have the language to identify them that way as loss or as grief, then it just kind of like stays stagnant as often burnout, um uh symptoms of depression, certainly symptoms of anxiety. And when I started thinking about it through that lens and just sort of like using what I'd learned in grief work and applying it to these types of things, I could just like with my clients or even just thinking about it within myself, there was this like like relief almost of like, oh, okay, that's what it is. Um, so yeah.

Speaker 9:02

You were trained in grief work before you recognized invisible grief? Is that yes? Okay. So when you were trained in grief work, what was your original framework of grief?

Speaker 1 9:18

Yeah, so I um spent a long part of my career as a counselor working at a therapy agency here in Austin. And about three years ago, I went into private practice. And when I did, I was like, you know, I'm like kind of in the mood to learn something new. So I started doing a couple of um small trainings on grief work. And that was also after I had experienced a significant loss just a few weeks after um my twin daughters were born. And I think that was what originally drew me to it. And when I started learning about it, I was like, okay, so what grief work, the like core of it is that people who are in grief are experiencing an intense loneliness because no one can know what it feels like to be experiencing the grief that any individual person is experiencing, and that society as a whole often wants the grieving person to start to feel better, and it's kind of like, hey, how are you doing? Oh, how are you doing? You do okay? You're how how are you doing? And like, kind of like, you know, nudging them along towards wanting to be better or feel better or move past their loss. And the framework for the grief work that I've stud I've learned in is um just accepting people where they are, and that grief is not something that goes away, you know, gets better and goes away. Grief is something that often, especially with significant losses, is felt forever. And it's learning to adapt and live your life with the grief as opposed to trying to get better or get over it.

Speaker 11:23

So something I hear I'm hearing you say is the significant loss, even that language is interesting, right? Because we're saying, so to me, when I've never studied, excuse me, I've never studied uh grief like as a training. Just normal therapist training on grief, but nothing, uh it is not my specialty. So even the word significant loss feels like okay, that's a death, that's a miscarriage, that's a divorce, that's a layoff, that's something like that. And so then we then there's this other category of invisible grief that maybe sometimes people can subconsciously label insignificant loss, like it's like less than yes, oh yeah, but one is the significant is like bam, like a big one. And the invisible grief really is the product of slower over time, like a whittling down, like sands through the hourglass or something like that.

Speaker 1 12:33

Yes, and with the significant loss that you named with death or divorce or yeah, like losing a job, those are all things that um, you know, society as a whole expects the person who experienced them to grieve. And um they name it, they label it, they have like often have ritual around it, like a funeral. Um and that can be very helpful to have that clear idea, like I'm feeling horrible, and this is why. But for an invisible loss, there is no acknowledgement of it by anyone else, often because people don't know what nobody knows what anyone else is feeling. And without that acknowledgement, it can you know remain stagnant.

Motherhood Identity And Marriage Erosion

Speaker 13:32

What are the specific losses or some specific losses that you see most often that go unwitnessed?

Speaker 1 13:40

Yeah. I think it's the uh changes that happen in motherhood. Um, I think it is the um like loss of what someone imagined their future would be. Um, you know, I thought by this at this point in my life, I would already have done these things, but I haven't, and it's actually probably not going to happen. Um marriage erosion. So that's not like, you know, our marriage is so on the rocks that we're going, we're considering separating or divorce. It's just like looking over at your partner and wow, our relationship is so different now than it was a few years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago. And that's a feeling of loss. Um also, like I mentioned with aging parents. Um those are the some of the most common ones that I see.

Speaker 14:48

The imagined future one is so interesting and like really kind of pings me in my chest because we don't just lose things. You're saying, you know, we lose the version of our lives that we thought we'd live. And for me, it's a dance of okay. I I had these goals and did I miss my chance or did I change, or did I edit, or did I edit because I knew it wasn't gonna happen? It's a really interesting little dance in that little tiny petri dish, you know, of was I not cutting it? Did I not work hard enough? Or did I actually not want it? Or was I not good enough? There's just it's so there's so many facets in there.

Speaker 1 15:44

Yeah. Did I forget? Oh, I forgot. I forgot about that. I forgot that I wanted to do that. Oh my gosh, now I remember, and whoa, that you know, I guess it's like really way too late. That happened for me like uh actually a couple times recently. Um, so I'm in my mid-40s and um I just recently when was this? It's like within the past couple of years. So I have always felt this very strong connection to Ireland, the country. I've never been there, but I do have roots there. And I start in college, wanted to do like a full year study abroad program there. I went through all the steps to do it, but then it fell through and ended up not doing it. And I've never, you know, never been. And so a couple of years ago, I was like, wait, wait, oh my gosh, here I am. Okay. I'm like, you know, 43. I have three young children. I have this house that I have to maintain and pay a mortgage on. I have my job. I when? When am I ever gonna do this? I wanted to like go and immerse myself and live there. And I was like, I mean, I guess I could have gone in college. They have master's programs in counseling there. I could have done that before I got married. I could have just like gotten a job there and and it's like, whoa, I never did. And now here I am. I'm like, that's probably never going to happen. And that realization is fine, you know, on the one hand, but on the other, it's a feeling of loss.

Speaker 17:27

Yeah, absolutely. I I totally get that, and this is in a very a much smaller, smaller scale. But this year I did a vision board, and I really haven't done crap with it. And last year, the last several years, I have hit every single mark on the vision board and then some. I mean, I was just like, this is awesome.

Speaker 1 17:54

Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 17:55

I'm a real overachiever, Roxanne. And this year, my challenge to myself was to set less goals, but but smaller, more kind of present stuff, learn how to play the piano, paint more. And I just haven't. If there are these big audacious goals, I will throw myself at them. And these smaller goals, I just haven't. I don't know. And I looked at that vision board the other day. I thought, oh my god, we're halfway.

Speaker 1 18:27

I haven't done it. I haven't done it. The pass the passing of time.

Speaker 18:32

And I thought there was a there was an imagined future that is not gonna happen. Like I and I know that that's small compared to your Ireland thing, but I think not your Ireland thing, your Ireland dream. But it feels like it feels like in life, like those little things can accumulate, and then we've got all these tiny little losses. Like, you know, I went to all the doctors' appointments this year, but I didn't learn to play the piano, you know, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 19:06

Yeah, I mean, I can totally relate because I also have had learning to play the piano on my like list of wants for the past like 15 years, as well as like gardening. And um it's yeah, a similar experience of like, okay, I could maybe could have done that again, like 10 years ago before I had kids, and now I'm like, where's the time for that? I don't know.

A Pause To Name Your Loss

Speaker 19:35

Listener, let's do our our show or kind of traditional weekly pause here. Okay, remember we inhale, exhale because what we're talking about casually, maybe something's bringing like something's coming up inside of you. Maybe you're driving or doing the dishes or on a walk. And I just want you to come back to the present, gonna invite you to do that. I am too. Just kind of feel myself back in my body. And here's the question: Is there a loss in your life? Maybe just a small one that you've never let yourself identify as a loss. Maybe you identified it as something else, as like I was saying, a missed goal or or time past, or it just wasn't for me, or maybe you changed roots. But maybe it was a loss, and maybe that would be okay now to label it as such. You don't have to call me, you don't have to publicize it, you don't have to do anything, but maybe just an internal reckoning of oh yeah, that maybe that was a loss, and maybe just sit with that for a few minutes because sometimes just noticing is very, very healing. You're listening to Couch Time with Cat. I'm Cat, and I'm here with Roxanne Watson talking about the grief no one sees and how naming it can set us free.

When Grief Looks Like Burnout

Speaker 21:11

Okay, Roxanne, let's talk about how all this masquerades. Because women aren't walking and saying, I'm grieving. They are saying, What? How what does how does grief disguise itself?

Speaker 1 21:26

Yeah, often with fatigue or exhaustion, um, overwhelm by this like persistent overwhelm. So, like, you know, going through the day at a high state of overwhelm. Um, you know, it's often the ways that we think about burnout. Um, so there's just this, like, I said before, like restlessness or um feeling disconnected from people around you. Even the people who you love dearly, um, often feeling like um there's this constant um want or pull or tug towards like alone. I don't I don't even want to be by myself, isolation, isolating. Um and often, especially for women, um there's this need to be like very high functioning, to cross off all of the items on the to-do list, which never end, you know, to-do list never ends, and to be sure that the kids have everything that they need. And of course, that never ends either. And the uh feeling of how you know, how how is this it? Is this is this this is life? This is what I'm doing. Um, and it feels like often women feel guilty. Like here I am with this amazing life. I have a great job that I love, I you know, love my kids, I have an amazing family, and still I'm unhappy. And that like disconnect is very difficult. Um, so when you're able to just acknowledge it, like, yes, my life is great, but there are also things that I experience as loss, and those have an impact on me. Um, there is this like loosening, or it just creates a lot more space and a lot more permission and flexibility to just feel what what you're feeling.

Speaker 23:48

What happens when we don't feel it? Like what how does that manifest in terms of keeping it unnamed? Is it just do we go darker inside? Do we then become depressed? Do we know I mean I think it's like a Venn diagram it?

Speaker 1 24:12

Yeah, when we don't name it, I think it I think it it like you said, uh go darker inside, it's like there's uh there's just like a dimming of uh joy or a dimming of um motivation to like do things that bring joy or a dimming of um yeah, like wanting to spend time with other people and um a pretty persistent feeling of like, gosh, okay, life is not really what I want it to be, but I don't know what to change.

Speaker 24:57

How do we know the difference between a grief and something else? Do we rule out the something else first? Do we rule out the grief first? Do we look at it at the same time? What's the what's the process there?

Speaker 1 25:15

Yeah, there's no like exact formula to it, but what comes to mind for me right now is that grief is defined as um a like sense of sadness, I'll say, that's in relationship to a loss. You know, in order to be experiencing grief, there has to have been a loss. And if you find yourself feeling like, what's what's up? What's up with me? Why am I feeling this way? Then using that lens initially of, you know, kind of like a checklist, is there anything that I'm feeling um this like sorrow or sadness that's attached to a specific loss? Um, I'm gonna give an example at the end of the school year, you know, which was just like whatever, like a month ago. Um, it was my older daughter's last day of school. And I was like really sad all day long. I went to an event at her school that morning. I was even tearful, like, you know, welling up. And I um know myself well. And I just sort of did like an internal, like, you know, what's going on here? This doesn't, this feels kind of intense, especially for what something should be like fun, you know, last year school. And I realized that she was finishing the second grade, she's starting third grade next year, and I was like, wait a second, didn't we just start kindergarten? Yeah, where is the time going? This my babe, she's my baby, and now she's like she's finished this school year, and I then I could identify this as a feeling of loss, like the loss of her uh like child, you know, young child, child like self.

Speaker 27:14

Yeah, absolutely. Do you think that we think if we name it, it'll feel worse, or if we admit it, it will overtake us. Do

Why Naming It Feels Scary

Speaker 27:26

you think that that is something that prohibits us from naming it or admitting it?

Speaker 1 27:32

Sure. I mean, yes, I think that's very, very common, especially with some of these losses that I'm talking about. We don't want to admit um to like marriage erosion, you know. I want to like believe that my marriage is great, I want to believe that we're doing well, I want to believe that we're both very happy. And that can be true while also acknowledging the marriage is a lot different than it was at any point in the past. Um, and also, as you said, there can be this feeling of like, I have to keep it together for myself, for my family, for my job. And if I like start to let all this in or acknowledge this, then how deep is that? How deep is that gonna go? How much how much am I gonna be spiraling? But really, as much as we can just be completely real and honest with ourselves, that's what decreases anxiety for sure, and often those feelings of sorrow and sadness. Um, you know, no feeling lasts forever. And often those intense feelings can feel scary because we do feel like, you know, am I gonna feel this? Am I is this like the reckoning that I'm coming to that this is just life? But really, when we name the feeling, that gives us much more opportunity to start to under look at it, understand it, acknowledge it, and be like, okay, thank, thank you, feeling. Thanks for informing me about all these things that I need to understand about myself. I can I can go on.

Speaker 29:27

Do you think that that's a good first step, admitting it to ourselves? Or do you think that what do you think what do you think is a good first step in somebody who's maybe starting to give a possibility to maybe what they're feeling is grief? You know, I'm treading lightly here because it feels uh so tender, you know, these seasons or these transitions or these losses for people. And so sometimes I know that, you know, I don't want a confrontation vibe. I want an ease into it vibe because it's so tender. What do you suggest for people? Talk to a friend, talk to yourself, journal. What do you think?

First Steps To Start Processing

Speaker 1 30:10

Yeah, I'm talking to uh certainly talking to anyone who you trust. So a friend or a family member if that feels right, or a therapist. Um, and also like just looking inside and being willing to uh understand yourself. And you can do that through journaling, you can do that through um intentionally giving yourself uh silence in a any given day. Um you can do that by not like white knuckling it, so not just like trying to get through, but really thinking like, okay, this is hard, why is it hard?

Speaker 31:05

And how do we what's the process of moving through grief? So now we've named it, we're starting to acknowledge it, maybe even accept it. And how do we learn to live with it, how to adapt to it, how to carry it with us, how to, because it it won't be strong all the time, and portions of it will dissipate. But I have certainly lost people or relationships that I've loved, and I carry it, I carry them with me all the time, and I'll smell a smell or hear a song or and I'm right back there. So I know that it's they never leave me, that's for sure. But that's my own personal experience. Maybe that maybe other people don't experience that way. But how do we start to actually work with the grief?

Speaker 1 32:05

Yeah, I mean, that's a beautiful um description of what it is often like for many people to lose someone who's close to them, is that there is this like devastation, especially at the beginning. And that does start to ease, but the pain um never goes away completely. Um, it gets easier, and we often will be able to go longer periods of time without feeling that intensity. And then eventually, when we are reminded in some of the ways you described, with like a song or a smell or a um, you know, like a phrase that was like an inside joke, then it can even feel like you know, good to remember that person. And though there is no goal of um that like grief ending, there is no end to it, and so that's a way of thinking about any of the other losses that I'm describing, the invisible losses, is it can feel intense at the beginning of uh of the loss or of recognizing it. And if you give yourself the space to just feel that and acknowledge it, then it starts to shift and change. And it again, the goal is not for it to completely go away, the goal is for it to like soften and just get a little bit easier over time, and then eventually sometimes you might have an experience in which you come like smack up against it and it's like, ugh, that hurts, but that's okay, and that just kind of like eases with time.

New Dreams And Meaning Making

Speaker 34:05

Do you ever feel like you've seen people or have you experienced yourself where this imagined future doesn't happen? Right? Let's say I wanted to be an Olympian. I don't know. Let's just let's go for it. And are there ever circumstances in people's lives that kind of come up against that wish or that imagined future that's not gonna happen, that kind of end up being salve for that grief? So maybe I become what what do I want to be an Olympian Roxanne in? Um snow skiing. I want to be a snow skier. Okay, great. I want to be Lindsay Vaughn. Okay. So then I become a children's ski instructor. Or I do you ever see where people kind of bring in another dream to kind of buttress up against that grief and kind of shore it up a little bit, be a salve a little bit. Do you ever see that?

Speaker 1 35:12

Um sure, yeah. I mean, uh, so yes, great. I love um the imagined future of being an Olympian.

Speaker 35:21

Um shoot high, shoot high, people.

Speaker 1 35:27

Exactly. An Olympian in snow skiing. Um, yeah, so in that example, um there's certainly so many ways to find a salve for that. And it has to be up to the individual person. Like uh some people, that type of experience, like, okay, well, I didn't make it, you know, didn't make it to the Olympics, but I'm still so drawn to that world that yeah, I am gonna start teaching or doing um some other like local competition. And that can um feel so good and like serve that part that's missing um what didn't happen for the next person that would feel like you know, no, what's the point? What's the point of a local competition when it's not the Olympics? And so each person has to sort of like decide for themselves, and it's you know, hopefully with intention. I'm acknowledging that I've had this loss. What do I need to make myself uh move through this? What's gonna feel good to me?

Speaker 36:47

Tell me the role that meaning plays in grief, because as you're talking, I'm thinking about a lot about meaning. And for me, meaning making is so magical. Like I just that is how I navigate through life, depending on the meaning I give something, is whether it has it takes up a lot of space in my heart or little space in my heart, or you know, and everybody gets their own value system. So I think that's really cool. How do you encourage clients to create meaning around their experiences, or does meaning making help them kind of heal and process the grief?

Speaker 1 37:31

Yeah. So I think um, especially, yeah. So in my work with my clients, um one way that I often frame what they're experiencing is what is this um feeling or emotion um trying to inform you of? Uh what is this grief? What is the information that this grief is trying to give you? And um sometimes it can be kind of obvious when it is a significant identified loss, like the death of someone close to you. The information is that I miss them. The information is that life is very hard without them. The information is that I'm not the same without them, but when it's an invisible loss, um, it can be a little bit harder to find that, but again, with intention, it's there. So if there's a loss of um being an Olympic athlete, what is that grief trying to inform you of? Why was that a goal of yours? When did that become a goal of yours? When, if if you can identify, did it start to lose um lose its trajectory? And what do all of those things inform you about yourself or about what you need?

Speaker 39:09

Beautiful. Thank you.

Homework And Ways To Connect

Speaker 39:11

I love that. Okay, listener, time for your homework. Here's your prompt for the week. What is a loss in my life that no one ever acknowledged? Maybe not even yourself. And what would it feel like to finally name it? Remember, be gentle with yourself. And if this episode found you at the right time, do me a favor, send it to a friend, and then come find us. We are live on Sundays at 10 a.m. on KWVH 94.3. And on Monday, we're on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio and the KWVH 94.3 archives. Come tell us what landed. DM me, DM Roxanne. She's at at with Roxanne Watson, and you can DM me on Couch Time with Cat on Instagram and Facebook. I read every single message, and your comments and your DMs to me really help me craft the show. So they mean so much to me. Thank you. Okay, Roxanne, anything else you want to share with the listeners about grief or words of encouragement or working through it?

Speaker 1 40:20

Yeah, my words of encouragement are that we all are all working so hard. And anytime anyone, you know, grief or loss or no identified loss, grief or not, no grief, when you find yourself feeling this feeling of like, uh, what am I doing? How you know what how why do I feel this way? Just the reminder, reminder, you feel this way because you're working so hard. And to give yourself a break, give yourself some acknowledgement. Wow, doing a good job. And then also when you can to just look inward and um have that curiosity to understand yourself.

Speaker 41:10

Thank you. My shoulders dropped as you said. You're working so hard. I was like, yes, I am. You are, you are cat. You are. Roxanne, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your warmth and wisdom and for helping us out here and for just sharing your gift with us and with your clients. How can people find you if they want to connect with you?

Speaker 1 41:34

Yeah, so um through Instagram at with Roxanne Watson or my website is counselingaustin.com.

Speaker 41:43

Okay, guys, go follow Roxanne. Go look her up. Her words are wise and kind and encouraging. And before you go, I just want to say thank you. Every time you listen to the show, it you help my dreams come true. So I appreciate every single one of you. Thank you, Roxanne. Until next time. Thank you. Take good care. Yeah, thank you, Cat. Thank you for spending this time with me today. If this episode resonated, I'd love to stay connected with you. You can follow along on Instagram and Facebook at CouchTime with Cat and sign up for my newsletter at CouchTimewithCat.com for reflections and resources delivered straight to you. Listen at CouchTime with Cat on KWVH 94.3 and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and iHeartRadio. Your support means so much to me. Thank you. Until next time, take good care of yourself.